20 replies to this topic

[Juju]

I was having a chat with some mini peeps today about building a car (or a whole edition of cars) for the 50th anniversay. A new car with a new registration . Classic mini-shaped, but not with the brand name. Called summink else.

I know this has been discussed on other fora & there are some plans hatching, but, if you were bring one out it would probably have to be in kit form (like the current moke). The question is, if the name "mini" was not associated with it, would the lawyers of BMW turn a blind eye?

[Guess-Works.com]

I believe your problem would be associated with the owners of what's called the silhouette. Not sure who owns the rights, but if it's mini shaped that's where you have your problem...

Also getting it though an SVA may be a bit of an issue as the seams will have to some off...

[ricky_mini]

you could follow the domino route? or with a fg minus shell.

[matt615]

Also getting it though an SVA may be a bit of an issue as the seams will have to some off...

There are a few motorobike engined Minis running around with new registrations, there was an 08 reg one at the London to Brighton. These cars still have their seams attached, and they must have passed a SVA.

[Juju]

I believe your problem would be associated with the owners of what's called the silhouette. Not sure who owns the rights, but if it's mini shaped that's where you have your problem...

How about the whole 3D form? Where could I find out about this without instructing a patent lawyer?

Also getting it though an SVA may be a bit of an issue as the seams will have to some off...

Why? What's the system for registering new vehicles built from kits?

[Jammy]

I believe if you used Heritage new shells, and made 'kit' vehicles from them, SVA'd them (which is easily doable) then you could probably call them what you like, not exactly sue how the kit car industry works.

I'd also say that if you made a dozen, BMW will probably leave you alone. I refuse to believe that they knew about small companies like 'My little bag' and not Minus.

[Dan]

Why? What's the system for registering new vehicles built from kits?

They must pass an SVA test. Essentially they have to be built to similar requirements as mass manufacturer cars. I don't know if the seams would pass or not, it's to do with the angle at which they contact the surface of a 100mm ball (simulated child's head) held against the car and the radius of the seam edge. I doubt they'd pass to be honest. This kind of test is why MPi Minis had little plastic covers at the end of the bumpers preventing your fingers getting stuck between the bumper and the wheel arch.

BMW own the Mini Sihouette and body design. If you were to make Mini shaped cars and offer them for sale as complete cars they would jump on you. You might get away with kits but it's not likely. BMH-ltd wouldn't sell shells on this basis if they knew what they were for as it would jeopordise their own licence from BMW to produce all parts. The only people licenced to produce a GRP shell were Domino and they've gone bust. There's no way a manufacturer would be able to produce a run of cars because Mini would no longer pass type approval, that's why it went out of production in the first place.

I know some people are planning similar things but I can't see it having a happy ending for anyone involved.

Edited by Dan, 24 August 2008 - 12:19 PM.

[mk1leg]

I was talking to some members of our club about this same subject and we came up with the same problems BMW BMW there would put a BIG spanner in the project and we would be left with unsold unregistered mini's..................... Bloody Germans..............

[taffy1967]

Well back in the late 1980's, this guy (Paul Huxford) was making his own specialist built Mini Coopers. They had retro style interiors and 10" wheels etc. They were built from brand new Mini City shells that he'd acquire straight from Rover: -



I can remember the cars appearing at Beaulieu every year and they were badged as Mini Coopers with different badges like 'Formula R' and 'Formula S', depending on what spec you chose.

Then I believe he got done by Rover and John Cooper and so the Mini and Cooper badges were dropped and he called them 'Viscount Cars' instead. Of course Paul Huxfords Mini Coopers cost around the 15 grand mark and that was back in 1989!

So Rover really put an end to his shenanigans when they launched the Rover Cooper for a fraction of the price in July 1990.



Anyway it was just the names that he was prevented from using in this instance, so how come Rover didn't stop him supplying the cars full stop?

Edited by taffy1967, 24 August 2008 - 01:14 PM.

[Dan]

Because they were actually Minis that he was buying from Rover, modifying and then selling on and I believe that after the court case he was doing it on a commission only basis. Nobody can stop you doing that and it has been the cornerstone of many Mini and other marque tuning houses for many years. 'Mini Cooper' though is very much trademarked. To do it with a new car now you would have to create the car from scratch and wouldn't be buying an actual Mini as a starting point. Also, Rover were never very careful with protecting their trademarks in general.

[taffy1967]

But surely a brand new heritage shell is the same as acquiring a brand new shell from Longbridge?

Huxford had to build the cars from scratch too didn't he?

[Dan]

No I don't think so. I seem to remember he was buying complete cars for conversion. Even ERA were buying complete cars to convert and that was a proper Rover product. It's by far the cheapest way to produce a limited run vehicle. BMH-Ltd make shells as spare parts, not for new cars and they have to buy the rights from BMW to be allowed to do it. Do you think that they would allow you to create these cars new if they knew that's what they were doing? They have to prove to BMW that they are protecting the interests of the Mini trademarks in the UK or they could loost their licence just like anyone else. It is BMH-Ltd that sell all the other licences in the UK to places like Mini Spares.

[onefastmoke]

Hi, a few months ago (I think) wasn't there a guy in minimag or miniworld who built a mini from scratch and had it registered as a new car. he was allowed 1 second hand part in the build which was the engine/gearbox so it must be do able

[techno-steve]

you can not call it a mini any more or clubman sidewalk cooper and a couple of others i carnt rember

i was in huddersfeild spare other day n i asked for a cooper badge n she said that they carnt sell or make anything with mini clubman sidewalk cooper on them so you would have a problem there or if u r wanting to make it and not call it a mini but im sure sum1 will own the rights to the shape you would have to find that out but it would be good to make a new car n im in if you need any help lol

[taffy1967]

No I don't think so. I seem to remember he was buying complete cars for conversion. Even ERA were buying complete cars to convert and that was a proper Rover product. It's by far the cheapest way to produce a limited run vehicle. BMH-Ltd make shells as spare parts, not for new cars and they have to buy the rights from BMW to be allowed to do it. Do you think that they would allow you to create these cars new if they knew that's what they were doing? They have to prove to BMW that they are protecting the interests of the Mini trademarks in the UK or they could loost their licence just like anyone else. It is BMH-Ltd that sell all the other licences in the UK to places like Mini Spares.

But I'm sure Huxford was completely building them from the ground up and I'm pretty sure that their brochure even showed a batch of bare shells amongst the finished pictures.