16 replies to this topic

[ryan69]

Does anyone know if you need to spray lacquer over something you have painted, my friend said that you have to otherwise the paint will fade.

[vasi]

AFAIK Lacquer is used on top of metallic paints only, to seal them.

[dklawson]

Lacquer is only compatible with lacquer. BaseCoat/ClearCoat paints are usually urethanes. Lacquers are a totally different. In generally you don't spray lacquer over anything other than lacquer because it will soften and/or lift the paint below.

[Woody]

That is only true over your side of the pond ! , over here any paint that is transparent is called lacquer (unless it is for boats or wood then it is varnish)

you only need lacquer over the paint if it is part of that paint system (it should say on the tin) , most metalic paints are now "clear over base" but a few solid colours are too .

[dklawson]

OK, this is another instance where we are separated by a common language. However, calling all clear paints "lacquer" is wrong and there is no two ways about it.
Originally lacquer, by definition, was
"A black resinous substance obtained from certain trees and used as a natural varnish". Over the years it obviously changed formulas with modern chemistry. However, it remains an organic paint using highly volatile solvents. It is not catalyzed. BaseCoat/ClearCoat systems are not covered with lacquer by its original definition. Clear coats for that type of paint I believe fall into the category of what you call two-pack. However, single stage enamels are sometimes used as clear coats for repair work.

[Woody]

Ok clever clogs ! :grin: it may be technicaly incorect ,but if the term is in common use (and by that i mean EVERYBODY i have ever spoken to ) then the definition is wrong not those useing it ?
we have : 2k lacquer
acrylic lacquer ,
cellulose lacquer
maybe there should be a "modern automotive lacqure " and a "traditional lacquer"
or a UK & US form
and by the way , how do you say" Aliminium" ?

[dklawson]

I say "alu-min-um". Not to throw stones... but WE are the ones who figured out how to refine the stuff economically. Prior to that, aluminum was a precious metal.

Sidebar: In a previous job I was traveling in Spain with a salesman and technician out of our office near Manchester. We stopped for lunch and I noticed we were being stared at by a man in a plaid flannel shirt and cowboy boots. After a while he came over to our table and said "I just want you to know how nice it is to finally hear someone speaking English again." The technician snapped to attention and said in a stern voice "Sir, HE (pointing at me) is speaking American, WE (gesturing at himself and the salesman) are speaking English". He put both of us in our place.

Returning to lacquer, the traditional stuff (made with modern chemicals) is what you call cellulose lacquer. That's what you'll get if you ask for it in a paint store over here. If you ask for acrylic you'll get enamel. If you ask for 2-pack (if they understand you at all) you'll get urethane.

As for things becoming a standard just because the terms are in common use (misuse) I'm dead set against it. My wife gave me such an example last week... "Ultimate". If you use that word (at least in the States) people assume you mean the "best". The actual meaning is "the last in a series" or "most remote in space or time". "Best" doesn't show up until way down the list of meanings. Another word I heard similarly misused this past month was "quintessential" which in context the writer used to mean "extremely necessary". The actual definition is "Representing the perfect example of a class or quality".

The British lampooned Webster for his phonetic dictionary during the Colonial Period. Perhaps they were right to do so. However, the misuse of the language today goes far beyond his well intentioned, misguided efforts. By the way, how do you spell "color".

Edited by dklawson, 23 May 2005 - 06:39 PM.

[Jammy]

I say "alu-min-um". Not to throw stones... but WE are the ones who figured out how to refine the stuff economically. Prior to that, aluminum was a precious metal.

Perhaps your not saying it right because your not spelling it right, its spelt, Aluminium! :tongue:

[pierce]

can you spray lacquer over synthetic paint cause would like to add glitter in between coats

[dklawson]

I refuse to answer any more lacquer related questions because if I answer wrong you'll ruin your paint.

As for "aluminum", I'm not sure if I blame Daniel Webster for that one or not, but you guys sure spell it funny. Just like how you get that "er" thing wrong at the end of "theater".

by the way, for those of you who visit Washington, D.C. someday. The top of the Washington Monument was originally capped with a little pyramid of aluminum because it was considered such a valuable metal at the time.

[ryan69]

Thanks for the advice.

you get that "er" thing wrong at the end of "theater"

How do you spell theater in the states then?

[Woody]

By synthetic paint i take it you mean enamel ? if you use single pack (cellulose) lacquer over that it will probably "pickle"up , a simular thing will happen if you use the paint found in most spray tins (acrylic)
just to note , a friend of mine sprayed glitter all over his mazda 323 and it looks just horrid :gasp: , all lumpy and a matt finish (he did not ask me first !) sure it sparkles in the sun , but at all other times horrid :gasp: so he said he would lacqure it all over ,this wont work as he did not "flat" the car before starting so it will all peel and flake .

[dklawson]

Sorry, I thought the correct U.K. spelling for "theater" was "theatre" and similarly... "centre" instead of "center" (like I would spell it).

Regarding enamel, I have been corrected by painters in the States that even 2-pack paint which I call 2-part urethane is in fact urethane enamel as opposed to what I call enamel... which they tell me is correctly called acrylic enamel.

Over here cellulose lacquer has become a specialty paint which is harder to find these days. Acrylic enamel is available in single component and catalyzed (2-part) systems. I've sprayed both. Lately, however, the trend has been toward 2-part urethane. This system is used both for "regular" paint with gloss and for BaseCoat/ClearCoat systems where only the top, clear coat is the gloss.

The comments Woody made about paint "pickling" is exactly what I was talking about when I first posted to this thread. The solvents in cellulose lacquer will attack acrylic enamels (single and 2-part).

[Lora222]

laquer is only sprayed on metallic paint, not "matt colours" this is to bring out the shine as metallic paint is dull if not laquered.

[ryan69]

OK thanks for the help guys.