9 replies to this topic

[Mini-City1983]

Hi All,

My previously ultra-reliable 1983 Mini City E 1000cc has suffered a series of engine-failures during longish-distance (140 mile runs including 60 miles of motorway travel) after a mechanic doing a 'routine' service replaced the ignition coil.

The first breakdown after 120miles including motorway (steady 60mph) revealed the ignition coil had failed after becoming too hot to touch and melting the contact points. A well-known roadside breakdown service diagnosed (I think - can't remember exact description..) that a wrong type of ignition coil had been fitted (it was the first journey of any length since the replacement ignition coil was put it). He said it was of a type with a 'ballast resistor' which had caused the coil to overheat and melt the contact points.

My Mini was towed to a spares shop and he fitted a replacement 'standard' ignition coil, points and condenser and I completed my journey - returning me home without mishap the following day.

The 'standard' coil fitted by the breakdown man was a "Commercial Ignition' 12 volt system" - described as a 'Super Gold' "standard 12v ignition coil" - yellow coloured at the plus and minus terminal end with blue stripes on a yellow body.

But after completing my next trip in the car - a 60 mile motorway run - and stopping for a 10 min coffee break, the Mini proved very hard to start. Just turned over without firing - eventuallly catching after five minutes of trying. Starting from hot was never a problem encountered before the 'original' ignition coil was replaced by the service mechanic (plugs and HT plug leads are new).

The next trip (with the Roadside Assistance fitted coil was a repeat of the 140 mile including motorway one. Two hours after arrival, again great difficulty in starting ....only got going after taking off distributor cover, flicking points etc. Five minute trip to petrol station - turning off engine - and then it again refused to start...only getting it going after repeating check on points (which looked ok - no visible (without dismantling) burning or pitting.

But, 110 miles on return journey on motorway engine cuts out. Refuses to re-start. Breakdown assistance mechanic establishes that no spark from coil - towed to garage where Mini now languishes.....

My question is: can someone give me details of the correct type - with make and part number - of ignition coil for a 1983 Mini City E 1000cc - and the phone number for a supplier in the London area?

It seems to me that both the ballast resitor ignition coil and the 'Super Gold' standard model were in some way 'wrong' for my Mini. Both failed - the non-ballast one also causing starting probs when the engine was hot.

Or could there be some other engine component that seems to have 'destroyed' two ignition coils in the space of two journeys?

Advice required please......I am a huge Mini fan - but have never encountered an electrical/ignition prob quite like this....

Thank you

Mini-City 1983

[Dan]

Your car was built during a period when it would be entirely possible for it to have either ignition system and any of a couple of different distributors. It should technically have non-ballasted 12v ignition but to be sure tell us how many wires there are to the coil and what colours they are.

[Mini-City1983]

Many thanks Dan. Unfortunately my broken-down Mini is langusihing in a far-away garage and I won't be able to report back for several days on the colours of wires going to the ignition coil to determine if it needs a coil with or without resistor ballast.

But whether it does or doesn't, my problem is that both an ignition coil with a ballast restor and one without have failed on successive longish distance journeys.

Have you - or any other Forum members - any suggestions on what could have caused this?

As mentioned, the points with the 'standard' ignition coil do not appear to have melted as with the 'ballasted' one and the 'standard' coil itself was only warm rather than too hot to touch after the engine had been running for a couple of hours.

I agree that the number and colour of wires to the coil will establish once and for all whether a resistor ballast coil or standard one is required for my particular Mini - although the breakdown recovery mechanic was of the firm opionion that a 'standard' coil was correct...and, as I say, the standard coil did not melt the points....although it made starting when engine hot hard and eventually failed...

Any suggestions/solutions very welcome......

Mini-Ccity 1983 (David)

[lrostoke]

From what you say it does sound like yours is non ballasted but as said above the numer of wires will confirm this.

If 2 wires go to the positive terminal and one is white and pink and will more than likely say resitive on it, then its a ballasted coil system

If only one going to the positive on the coil then non ballasted..

Also check the negative terminal should only be one wire on either system and that goes to the points, there may be two but the 2nd is if you have a tacho/rev counter
Think I've read some people have had problems caused by the rev counter shorting so if its got one disconnect that wire to test it.

When they fitted the new points did they re-time the engine, this could be the cause of the poor warm starting.

http://www.minispare....aspx?pid=38291 <--- non ballast coil

http://www.minispare....aspx?pid=35392 <-----ballasted coil

[Mini-City1983]

Many thanks, Irostoke.

Until I return to inspect my broken-down Mini (and can then report back to the Forum on wire colours to the ignition coil), can anyone suggest why the new non-ballasted replacement coil failed after a couple of journeys? (Asuming for the time being that my particular 1983 Mini requires a non-ballasted ignition coil - the minispares.com site says the ballast type was introduced from 1984)

Is there any fault that that could have destroyed the new non-ballated coil that I need to look for?

On the warm-start problem: the melted points were replaced without any adjustment being made to timing apart from the the gap being checked as correct. Can anyone suggest any other causes for the poor warm-starting?

The total engine failures, failure of two ignition on coils (ballasted and unballasted), melting points and poor warm-starting only started after car's original coil was replaced.

I just need a return to the years of reliable service my Mini gave.....Something is causing the rash of probs....but I still have no idea what...

Any further suggestions gratefully received.

David (Mini-City1983)

[Dan]

For the coil I would tend to stick with a non-ballast type from what you've said. As for the other problems, the new 12v coil may have failed simply because it is a lower quality product. It may however be that the condensor has failed, this could lead to all kinds of problems depending on what has actually happened to it and is fairly common. A failed condensor could certainly damage other parts of the system and lead to poor running. I would try replacing that first since it's the only part of the ignition that you haven't changed or inspected so far and could well cause the problems. Without you having the car its hard to suggest what you can do to investiage but I would return to it equipped to replace the coil, condensor and clean and adjust if not replace the points. If the car is some distance from you it might even make sense to take with you a full set of dizzy consumables including a cap and rotor. Stick to Lucas products and make sure that the condensor works before you leave, they are well known for being failed in the packet. You will need to be able to measure its capacitance to test it.

All that is assuming it is a Lucas dizzy, again it is hard to be sure without you having the car.

Edited by Dan, 30 April 2008 - 08:37 AM.

[Mini-City1983]

Hi Dan,

The condenser was replaced by an AA mechanic at the same time as the points and the ballasted coil.

The distributor cover, HT leads and plugs were replaced a couple of months ago - at the same time as the original coil.......It was after this 'service' that the probs started.

But I agree that going equipped when I collect the Mini with a new set of dizzy parts is sensible.....even if I subsequently keep them as spares.

A basic question: do any nation-wide motor spares shops - such as Halfords- stock the points, coil, condenser - for a 1983 Mini?

And is there an online site where I can source the approriate part numbers for these components?

Thanks for all your help - this Forum is incredibly useful.....

Best wishes,

David




[

[Dan]

Halfords stopped selling contact breaker ignition components around 5 years ago. You might find a cap and rotor arm there and they might be able to get a set of points and condensor on order. You should be able to get the parts from Motorists Discount Centre or Cafco.

It is quite possible that the condensor fitted by the AA is broken, they are quite commonly broken in the box and there doesn't seem to be a reason why apart from the usual terrible quality control at Lucas.

As for part numbers as I said before your car could quite possibly have one of three different distributors fitted, so without knowing which type it is it's hard to say what you need. It is possible that the AA has fitted non-sliding contact points (45D type red heel) to a sliding contact dizzy (59D blue heel), that would be easy to do accidentally and would cause a few problems but I can't imagine it would nuke a coil. Technically your car should have a Lucas 59D4 dizzy with blue heel points part number GCS2124 and condensor part number GCS2109 but the car could equally have a 45D4 dizzy or even a Ducellier since it was built in the early '80s. Those are Rover part numbers not Lucas, I don't have the Lucas numbers to hand I'm afraid.

One other thing to check regarding the poor running, from the sounds of it the mechanic who did the service was a little slap-dash so I'll mention this even though it shouldn't be a mistake a mechanic would make. Check that he hasn't lost the genuine condensor mounting screw or other screws in the dizzy baseplate and fitted a longer screw in its place. It has been known for modern mechanics who are unfamiliar with how a dizzy works (if they have only been educated on fuel injected cars) to use any old screw to hold a dizzy together and effectively lock the baseplate of the dizzy solid, fixing the advance and giving bad running. That was done to my GFs Mini the first time she had it serviced by a dodgy come-to-your-home type mechanic and is really annoying as it's had to spot if you aren't looking for it.

Also make sure the ultra-flexible dizzy baseplate earth link is still in place and in good condition inside the dizzy.

Edited by Dan, 30 April 2008 - 11:37 AM.

[Mini-City1983]

Thanks again, Dan.

Once I'm re-united with my Mini, I'll be able to identify the distributor type fitted and be in a better position re ordering replacement parts from the sources you suggest.

I'll also check for rogue mounting screws.

Best wishes,

David

[Mini-City1983]

A quick update on my ignition coil-related probs....

Have managed to drive my ailing Mini home (slowly...) from the garage yard where it was towed from the M3.... Discovered that one wire going to the ignition coil had 'resistive' written on it, so swopped the non-ballasted coil with the ballasted one - engine started and I managed to get the car home.

I realise the initial probs still need to be investigated, but at least I'm now able to apply the brilliant advice and tests supplied by Forum members.

Thank you all..........this Forum is fantastic.

Keep up the good work.

David (Mini-City1983)