14 replies to this topic

[Juju]

....the only mechanics I know are quantum & the only engineering I do is genetic, so please bear with me while I try & get my brain around this.

Now my noodle can just about accept that bhp & torque are very different chappies, and I'm not really that interested in bhp. What I am interested in is getting a little more "grunt" out of my Matilda. Is there any way of increasing the torque of an engine, or am I stuck with what I have from an Mpi? Summink to do with gearing, or am I way off the mark?

Please answer in English in words of minimal syllables.......


Confused-Juju-scared-of-asking-a-dumb-question

[Bungle]

whats your budget and what spec is your mini now ?

[Juju]

whats your budget and what spec is your mini now ?

Engine = Standard 1.3Mpi.
Budget = some monies.

[Bungle]

most things that give you more power will give more torque

so the good old stage 1 kit is a good start

a cam change is also good

and the most expensive way is more cc from the engine 1293-1330 etc

then your looking at a new programmable ECU

[tino]

Torque and power are (almost) flip sides of the same coin. Increasing the torque of an engine at a particular RPM is the same as increasing the power output at the same RPM.

So to increase the amount of Torque you have at any one point you in general increase the power. However if all your looking for is a little bit more acceleration (poke) you can change the gear ratio, although you sacrifice top end speed by doing this.

As Bungle mentioned a Stage 1 kit is a good place to start, then its a cam, change of cylinder head has some improvements, or an engine rebore. It depends what you want and how much you are looking to spend.

[Juju]

So to increase the amount of Torque you have at any one point you in general increase the power. However if all your looking for is a little bit more acceleration (poke) you can change the gear ratio, although you sacrifice top end speed by doing this.

That's essentially what I'm after. I'm not that worried about losing top end speed because she's a road car that I just use for commuting & playing in. What I would like her to do is get up hills more easily & have greater acceleration for overtaking the 4X4 population of Surrey.

[tino]

The best person you can talk to then is Guessworks, PM him or visit his website http://www.guess-wor...arbox/ratio.htm. He will be able to advise you on what you need. The link goes to a calculator that is handy to work out what ratio's do what.

That however is'nt increasing torque all your doing is changing the ratio of the gear's so you can accelerate quicker. An rev make it more uncomfortable for motorway driving.

[Bungle]

a diff change might help

guessworks should be able to advise you on cost and what ratio

[Juju]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....I've done a bit of reading now. Is the estimate of 20% power increase & 12% torque increase from a stage 1 kit accurate?

Considering I won't be doing the work meself, I think fiddling with the gearbox and/or diff is gonna be expensive & will take a while (and I'm tight & impatient... )
So maybe Stage 1 kit will be the easiest way? She was going to have a spangley new exhaust soon, anyway....

[wolfys_mini]

juju

go with the stage one first.

if its not upto your standard then come back and we can look at it again and advise a bit more.

[Bungle]

guessworks will comferm this but to replace the diff its a engine out job split the engine from the gear box replace the diff then put it all back together again

at least 2 days work

when you buy your stage 1 kit make sure its for a MPI injection as its different to a carb stage 1 kit

[JetBLICK]

With torque comes power. You can get loadsa torque if you want it, from racey cams. Tho you get loads more torque, it doesnt become apparent until you rev the motor up a bit, which isn't always ideal. If you want more grunt and driveablilty you want a car which produces lots of torque from the moment you pull off.

A stage one kit is a good starting point, comprising of a new exhaust and filter, and prahaps the appropriate mapping of the ECU.

After that start talking to the professionals, as it involves complicated head work and careful camshaft selection. Swiftune are good at tuning MPi's, and everyone raves about their SW05 cam.

Also speak to mini sprocket, he knows his MPi's, dunno how driveable his is, but its very powerfull with 100lbs/ft of torque (thats a lot )

Edited by JetBLICK, 01 December 2007 - 03:10 PM.

[Ethel]

Using a push bike analogy...

Torque is a turning force, so a big fat knacker standing on the pedals would make them turn faster = acceleration.

Power(BHP) is like Lance Armstrong, he may not be able to put the same weight on the pedals as the fat lad but he can make them turn faster for longer because his athletic bod is better at converting oxygen and Pasta into motion.

The win, win approach to tuning is to improve an engine's ability to breath, the better it fills the cylinders the more torque it will produce and that will be more noticeable at higher revs when there's less time to fill the cylinders so increases in power will be even greater. You get better fuel economy too, provided you resist the temptation to use the extra power.

The required goodies are often bundled as a tuning kit and that would be a good way to go with an MPI.

Changing the gear ratios would turn Matilda in to a rowdy, fuel thirsty, road muncher as you'd be using more revs to drive at the same speed.

It's a similar tale with cams and both would be expensive options requiring the engine to come out for fitting.

An air filter, cylinder head and exhaust should see a reasonable increase in Jeep eating ability without unbearable road manners.

http://www.minispare...le.aspx?aid=336

Edited by Ethel, 01 December 2007 - 04:04 PM.

[Bevan]

I recently upgraded to a stage 1, well not quite there yet as need to get the K&N SPI Air intake kit, but I fitted a £325 exhaust system that I purchased from Maniflow, and I can notice a difference, plus it sounds alot nice now!

[Juju]

Using a push bike analogy...

Torque is a turning force, so a big fat knacker standing on the pedals would make them turn faster = acceleration.

Power(BHP) is like Lance Armstrong, he may not be able to put the same weight on the pedals as the fat lad but he can make them turn faster for longer because his athletic bod is better at converting oxygen and Pasta into motion.

The win, win approach to tuning is to improve an engine's ability to breath, the better it fills the cylinders the more torque it will produce and that will be more noticeable at higher revs when there's less time to fill the cylinders so increases in power will be even greater. You get better fuel economy too, provided you resist the temptation to use the extra power.

The required goodies are often bundled as a tuning kit and that would be a good way to go with an MPI.

Changing the gear ratios would turn Matilda in to a rowdy, fuel thirsty, road muncher as you'd be using more revs to drive at the same speed.

It's a similar tale with cams and both would be expensive options requiring the engine to come out for fitting.

An air filter, cylinder head and exhaust should see a reasonable increase in Jeep eating ability without unbearable road manners.

http://www.minispare...le.aspx?aid=336

Awwwwwwwwww, Ethel!! I love you!!

That's exactly the kind of explanation my addled little mind appreciates. Thank you!!!

Lots of big fat wet kisses,

Juju