18 replies to this topic

[LankyJames]

Basically 2 weeks ago my brakes went soft and so i jacked up the car....took the left wheel off, and there i found the broken remains of the split pin that holds the castle nut onto the drive shaft....

I replaced this and my brakes were GOOD.

Well its just gone again tonight, brakes are soft, took the wheel off when i got home and TADA same problem. Luckily its a cheap fix, but its inconvienient and makes my car very unreliable ( im supposed to be picking someone up at 9pm! )

This has happened to me one other time in the summer, after driving to paris and back the weekend after the brakes were soft and finally the wheel came off the driveshaft, and as such ( thanks to mr differential ) i had no forward or backward drive!

Has anyone had this before?

And what is the best way of solving this?

Bigger split pins?

Is it also true that as i tighten the castle nut up clockwise, and the wheels spin anti-clockwise that the nut is being wound off, and all pressure is excerted onto the split pin?

Thinking of using a nail...

[Jammy]

Sounds like the castle nut hasn't been tightened to the correct torque, or at least the correct procedure wasn't used.

[sixwheeler]

Is it also true that as i tighten the castle nut up clockwise, and the wheels spin anti-clockwise that the nut is being wound off, and all pressure is excerted onto the split pin?

Thinking of using a nail...

No, that would be correct, wheel anticlock and nut clock then it is doing it up. What is confusing [worrying] is your reference to the 'pressure is excerted onto the split pin'.

If you are doing up the nut then there should be no split pin there to put any pressure on.......?

Never ever seen anything like it before so can only summise that you may be doing something a bit odd.

Edited by sixwheeler, 17 November 2007 - 06:53 PM.

[Ethel]

The drive flange is held on the shaft by splines all the split pin should have nothing to do really. I'd have a look at the joint between the flange and shaft, 'n the condition of the thread, before you end up watching your wheel spin off down the road

Edited by Ethel, 17 November 2007 - 06:53 PM.

[jack_marshall]

If you use a split spin with a small head then they can break.

Try using a split pin with the biggest head possible and check Haynes for the torque setting of the castle nut.

I also had a similar problem and it was because I wasn't running the spacer washer behind the castle nut so it was binding on the hub and not staying tight.

Have you got this spacer washer in place?

[SpaceframeGT]

Basically 2 weeks ago my brakes went soft and so i jacked up the car....took the left wheel off, and there i found the broken remains of the split pin that holds the castle nut onto the drive shaft....

I replaced this and my brakes were GOOD.

Well its just gone again tonight, brakes are soft, took the wheel off when i got home and TADA same problem. Luckily its a cheap fix, but its inconvienient and makes my car very unreliable ( im supposed to be picking someone up at 9pm! )

This has happened to me one other time in the summer, after driving to paris and back the weekend after the brakes were soft and finally the wheel came off the driveshaft, and as such ( thanks to mr differential ) i had no forward or backward drive!

Has anyone had this before?

And what is the best way of solving this?

Bigger split pins?

Is it also true that as i tighten the castle nut up clockwise, and the wheels spin anti-clockwise that the nut is being wound off, and all pressure is excerted onto the split pin?

Thinking of using a nail...

Have you checked the condition of the wheel bearings, or are the threads damage on either the driveshaft or castle nut? I would suspect the driveshaft nut coming loose is allowing misalignment of the wheel hub and pushing the brake wheel cylinder pistons back , hence soft brake pedal.

[LankyJames]

Sounds like the castle nut hasn't been tightened to the correct torque, or at least the correct procedure wasn't used.

What is the correct procedure? OR can you give me a page reference in the haynes?

No, that would be correct, wheel anticlock and nut clock then it is doing it up. What is confusing [worrying] is your reference to the 'pressure is excerted onto the split pin'.

If you are doing up the nut then there should be no split pin there to put any pressure on.......?

Never ever seen anything like it before so can only summise that you may be doing something a bit odd.

No im not retarded [hah] i am winding up the nut without a split pin there, what i meant is as the nut is wound off while driving, it puts pressure on the split pin... ( wound off because wheel is anticlock while nut is clock to tighten...).

The drive flange is held on the shaft by splines all the split pin should have nothing to do really.

When the split pin broke, the castle nut wound off so far for the drive flange to come so far off that it was off the splines of the drive shaft!

I also had a similar problem and it was because I wasn't running the spacer washer behind the castle nut so it was binding on the hub and not staying tight.

Have you got this spacer washer in place?

This washer is the tapered cone shape washer that sits behind the nut and in the hole of the hub right?

If so it is there

Have you checked the condition of the wheel bearings, or are the threads damage on either the driveshaft or castle nut? I would suspect the driveshaft nut coming loose is allowing misalignment of the wheel hub and pushing the brake wheel cylinder pistons back , hence soft brake pedal.

This is exactly how i had thought that the brakes were feeling soft, due to misalignment...

[Jammy]

Do you know which wheel bearings you have? The tapered timkin bearing, or ball bearing?

Read from GraemeC's post onwards on this topic.

[LankyJames]

Torque to 150 lb/ft with a large flat washer (that sit ontp drive flange, not in it) under the nut and no split conical washer.
Remove nut, replace flat washer with conical washer and re-torque to 150 lb/ft.
Further tighten until castleations and split pin hole are aligned and replace split pin.

Job done!

This is the method i used the first time! And the problem occured again but obv much later than this twice in 3 weeks! Didnt have a torque bar mind, but im pretty sure i did it very tight!
Gonna buy a torque wrench and socket and give it enough go on monday with a bigger split pin....and a washer...thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated!

Also in reply to your question i do not know its type...

[Jammy]

If I was you I'd make sure that all mating sufraces are clean and there isn't anything stopping it all fitting together correctly.

[Jordie]

If you didnt have a torque wrench you're probally no where near as tight, as they can be right feckers.

I normally chock the wheels, put the car in gear, h/brake fully on, turn the wheel so the torque wrench is away from the car when u tighten it up. I only have a short wrench and i had to use a scaffold bar on the end to get the correct torque.

[mini13]

If the drive shaft nut comes loose and the car is driven for a long period the drive flange can wear (and in severere cased the CV joint) to the point where the nut will just keep slackening off.

also when the flange wears the parts that come off go into the weel bearing causing it to fail.

when the nut slackens off the drive flange and brake disk will be allowed to move in relation to the caliper, this will push the caliper pistons and brake pads back slightly, when the brakes are used next the pistons will need to be "pumped out" until they clamp the disc giving a long pedal travel.

I would suggest you remove the drive flange and inspect the inside face where it contacts the wheel bearing for wear, if there is any replace the drive flange, wheel bearing, Nut, conical washer and if the splines look worn on it the CV joint.

I think a new nut and conical washer come with a new CV joint.

[LankyJames]

Ok, well when i tightened it up i noticed something very strange....

This only happened these last two times....but when the nut is wound up, the split pins hole is a fair distance ( read about 1-2mm ) from the lowest part of the castle nut ( as if it were laid flat on a table ) This seems cruicially wrong....as if its not tight up to it...something else isnt right!

[midridge2]

come across this before a couple of times, i fitted a new taper washer and that cured it.

[mk1leg]

drive shaft castle nut should be torqued up to 150lbs, than to nearest hole for split pin never slacken off for hole..........................