81 replies to this topic

[whitbytom]

Interesting rant there!

So in your experience what has been committed in ths case? Misrepresentation? Also the garage proprietor would be the suspect but I'd genuinely be interested to know if this is a criminal or civil case?

Would it be better pursued through VOSA or the Police?

[Jammy]

Pursue through VOSA and DVLA, as they are the people to shut down the garage if there are problems with ringing and dubious MOTs.

[The Matt]

Whitbytom!!!

DEFINATELY report this garage for this.

I bought a car from the same garage in April for £1750, an old K reg 850cc Morris Mini. He said it'd be sold with a full MOT and everything, etc. He did sell it to me with a full MOT. After having a couple of problems, I took it to a local mini mechanic here in Leeds where I live... he said the car was an absolute deathtrap! The subframes were knacked, the sills had massive holes (that had been filled in and painted over) the boot had holes in, the doors had holes in, bear in mind I knew nothing about minis and thought it was a good buy at the time.

I ended up taking the car back, with re-inforcements in the form of my dad!! and we got our money back, luckily.

That old guy there has a cheek, I think we should name and shame garages who rip people off like this.

I will happily remove the name if that isn't the correct garage but as far as I know that's the only mini specialist in that small town!

P.S. next time you go past see if there's a red 1973 K-Reg Morris Mini there, with white bonnet stripes and white 10" weller wheels, that's the one! All he's done, instead of sort out the problems, is fill the sills and steps back in and paint over them!

This story has got me SO annoyed! That garage really has a cheek and I shouldn't be surprised that he's ripped other people off.

I was told by my local mini mechanic, even if I was to get a refund (which I did), to take the garage that did the MOT - Kwik Fit in Scarborough - to the Ministry - as they should've NEVER passed that car in the state it was in. Perhaps the guy at the Mini garage has a deal with the local MOT place? I remember the guy who sold me the car - his exact words were "we send the cars out to another place for their MOT's - that way it covers both me and you" - the scheming old pillock!

I didn't take it further at the time as I just wanted to forget about it all, and obviously without me still having ownership of the car (after taking it back) there wasn't much I could do with VOSA or whatever to prove the car was sold in an unroadworthy state.

Please, please, please report him for whatever you can nail him for. The profit he must be making on those cars! I saw a (new) J reg automatic mini there a few months back, looked standard, didn't even have a sunroof, rust on the doors & A panels, up for £4250!!

EDIT - for anyone who's curious about the state of the car I was sold with a FULL MOT click HERE for pictures - they aren't very good quality but show the rot nonetheless.

Do NOT buy this car:

Chris, surely your gripe is with the MOT station, not the seller? How do you know that the seller knew the vehicle was in that condition? More's the point, how would you prove it? If he's taken the car to MOT at an independant station, it's their fault for passing it. It could be a previous owner that's 'masked' the corrosion. Anyway, I'm not for naming and shaming like this, especially when the guy's actually given you money back for a car that he sold you. The fact that it had an MOT on it and that he paid for the MOT doesn't make him responsible for it passing when it shouldn't have!

And, some of the pictures of rust you've got, well, for a car that's over 30 years old it aint that bad and they wouldn't all cause the car to fail the MOT anyway.

Just my opinion.

The actual crux of this thread is different. We're talking about the possibility that someone has been decieved into selling their car at a fraction of its true value because of a HPi report. I'd do as Big Man has suggested to be honest, and maybe as Jammy suggested above.

Remember though guys, companies' reputations are won and lost on this kind of thread!

Edited by mini mad me, 30 October 2007 - 10:43 AM.

[yorkshirechris]

Chris, surely your gripe is with the MOT station, not the seller? How do you know that the seller knew the vehicle was in that condition? More's the point, how would you prove it? If he's taken the car to MOT at an independant station, it's their fault for passing it. It could be a previous owner that's 'masked' the corrosion. Anyway, I'm not for naming and shaming like this, especially when the guy's actually given you money back for a car that he sold you. The fact that it had an MOT on it and that he paid for the MOT doesn't make him responsible for it passing when it shouldn't have!

And, some of the pictures of rust you've got, well, for a car that's over 30 years old it aint that bad and they wouldn't all cause the car to fail the MOT anyway.

Just my opinion.

The actual crux of this thread is different. We're talking about the possibility that someone has been decieved into selling their car at a fraction of its true value because of a HPi report. I'd do as Big Man has suggested to be honest, and maybe as Jammy suggested above.

Remember though guys, companies' reputations are won and lost on this kind of thread!

Sorry I might've missed out a few facts from my post (that isn't sarcasm by the way).

My gripe is with both the MOT station, which is Royal Garage in Scarborough, and the Mini Specialist who sold it to me. After seeking legal advice, I was told that the MOT station are obviously to blame for passing it when it's in no fit state to be driven. I had a local Mini Specialist independently tell me this too. And what has the local specialist I know have to gain from instructing me to take it back to where I bought it immediately for a refund? So, the MOT station should NOT have passed that car under any circumstances.

Also after seeking legal advice I was told the following:

That car was not fit for the road (as I was informed by the local independent mechanic) and selling it to me was contravening the Sale Of Goods Act which says it must be in a roadworthy condition. That car was NOT roadworthy.
Even though the seller might plead ignorant, HE is responsible for the condition of that car on its sale.
I was told by VOSA that I could have an inspector to come out and check over the vehicle within 14 days. They would then make a report which I could pass to trading standards along with my proof of purchase to go get my money back. Luckily I got my money back, so I didn't have any need for VOSA to come inspect the vehicle. VOSA actually said it'd be a good idea to get your money back but they'd prefer to inspect the vehicle as it would only be sold to someone else in the same state, endangering them as the driver. Obviously, at the time, I was hardly going to turn down getting my money back for the sake of 'doing' the guy at the garage, as you say, reputations can be won and lost on forums like this which is why I am naming and shaming the place so people know to steer well clear.

You're right, he isn't responsible for the MOT because he didn't pass it. And I think that's partly why he sends them to the other garage (which I deeply suspect are 'in on it' with him) to get MOT'd, so he can't be held totally responsible for the MOT's.

What the seller at the garage IS responsible for as I say, by law, is that that vehicle is in a roadworthy state. The fact he said "it will be sold with a full MOT", so I have been told by VOSA, is an "implied term" - he is implying that the car will be in a full, fit, roadworthy state, when it clearly was not in this case. This on its own can be used as part of the argument against the seller!

To top it off, when I took the car back to the garage, the guy offered to "get it all sorted" within 4 hours! New sills, new seat crossmembers and a new patch welded into the boot floor in 4 hours?! I don't think so!

And finally to put the icing on the cake... a few weeks after I took it back we went and had a look at the car... he had 'sorted it out' indeed.

By putting Polyfilla in the holes I made with the screwdriver and painting over them!

As far as reputations go... this guy needs naming and shaming. Imagine if you were me and you'd bought the mini I bought in April. By the way I'm not saying you're as stupid as I was back then! But imagine you'd come on here first, and there were people who had had problems with the garage before, but failed to name the place, and you went and got conned by the guy. How would you feel? I think you're forgetting that naming and shaming is only done when bad things have happened, obviously here I was sold a shed by a guy who knew it was unroadworthy and someone else has been ripped off. Isn't that worthy enough of a name and shame? If it stops other people getting ripped off and hurt by this guy then I think it's well worth it.

Edited by yorkshirechris, 30 October 2007 - 04:50 PM.

[Big Man]

I reckon with my cid head on he the actual person who started and completed the transaction by telling lies re the result of the hpi report has obtained the property in this case the mini by deceiving the seller with regard to status of the car. Subtract the purchase price and any receipted work carried out from the current market value . The advertised price and you have the deception value

[yorkshirechris]

Is the garage also committing an offence by offering the car for sale knowing that it's not HPI clear... or would it not be an offence until it's actually sold to someone?

[Bungle]

i think its only if they sell the car and dont tell anyone about its history

[Big Man]

Civil, I dont think a garage does have to disclose accident damage etc, however if asked they must be truthful and have taken reasonable steps to find out. Furthermore a garage can sell a car that is not Hpi clear WRT accident damage. However I doubt that they would be able to finance it.

If they know its been a write off and repaired and you ask, they say "no mate its fine" and you buy the car on that basis you have been decieved into parting with your money (property). Again the burden of proof is on the prosecution so (Criminal) and this can be acheived by a simple Hpi audit trail etc. The same goes if they say I have checked and its Hpi clear and turns out not to be.

The key is to ask and dont expect to be given all the faults up front!


Cheers

BM

[whitbytom]

OK ressurrecting this thread slightly....

Done another HPI check on this car and the facts are thus:
1. Declared a Category B Write off in early 2002
2. Vehicle scrapped in late 2002 - 'Crushed'

The lad who used to own this car knows this already, knows he got stiffed by the guy who sold it to him, but now his aim is to avoid anyone else falling into the trap he did.

SO his girlfriend kindly agreed to go into said Mini Specialists and enquire about the car. She was dealing was with the gaffer, and these are the answers she got to the questions she asked:

Q: 'What's the car's history?'
A: 'Came in here used to belong to a young girl who loved it, serviced it on the dot, washed it every weekend etc etc'

NOT TRUE Belonged to my mate, was bought off him by the specialist for £150 as a write off FOR PARTS!

Q: 'What condition is it in, has it got an MOT?'
A: 'It came in with a dent on the rear quarter, which was cosmetic so we repaired it and sprayed it up. It hasn't got an MOT now, having been stood, but I'd put 12 months on it for you'

NOT TRUE Had a bent wing and front panel, which he has hastily repaired himself. Rear quarters were fine. If this car is to get an MOT, it will be a dodgy one, as I don't believe you can put a computerised MOT on a car that's a cat B write off?

Q: 'Would you look at doing some discount on the car'
A: 'Oh I dunno, cars of this condition are getting hard to come by'

He's got to be having a laugh right?

This car registration is N407 WOM under any circumstances DO NOT BUY THIS CAR

Edited by whitbytom, 15 November 2007 - 10:28 PM.

[Bungle]

did anyone ever report him to trading standards

[yorkshirechris]

I didn't because I got my money back on the shed that I was sold.

I can totally believe thats what he's told the girl who enquired about the car. That's the sort of place they are, was it the old fat miserable bloke she dealt with? He's the one who I bought the car off and he's the one who gave me my money back. He is a sly man, and it just goes to prove he'll do anything to sell that car.

I'd love to think that everyone thinking of buying a Mini would come on here first and read this but unfortunately they wont

[Bevan]

I think its a good thing that some of us know about this guy. He seems like scum, one of these people who will do anything for money. This belongs on that T.V program "rouge traders"!
The guy is just as bad as somebody ripping off an old lady and bodging a repair job and charging loads.

[Big Man]

You seriously need to contact trading stndards and get this sorted, you never know you may not be the first to report this. Do it its only a phone call and they ring you back! They are realy really keen to progress this things of this nature.

Cheers

BM

[Jammy]

Yea, seriously, you need to contact the DVLA and Trading standards. The chances are that this car will be sold to someone who isn't on TMF and won't know about its history. If the police ever did a stop check on the car and found out about its history then its highly likely the new owner would lose the car AND their money.

Please please report the garage and the car to the above authorities! If not, PM the details to me and I'll report it!

[Jake Blues]

Just a thought but....are you sure it IS the same car and not just the Reg number that has been transfered to this, different vehicle?


As always, in this country, buyer beware it would seem!