26 replies to this topic

[taffy1967]

if you get stuck for some nylon washers i have loads in metric and imperial sizes. i can stick a couple in the post if you like.

Thanks mate but I think I may be alright because after checking the sump plug hole this morning, there is no heli-coil fitted to the sump plug hole of my Mini. They must have just cut a new thread which is a very fine thread too and probably explains why the large bolt they used never fitted that well in the first place and why it's failing to seal properly now.

So I was clearly ripped off a few years back, but the good news is that company I mentioned should easily be able to sort the problem now once and for all. Well either way they did say that they could, especially if there is no heli-coil already in there.

Although I will have to use some plumbers tape to try and prevent it leaking oil when I drive to get the job done soon.

So I'm pleased because at least I don't have to replace the gearbox/sump casing now.

[YoungUn]

My van also leaks from the sump plug, but I don't know what all the types of plugs etc you are on about.. i thought about getting a rubber washer to go in between the face of the sump and inner face of the plug head...however I havn't undone the plug yet, as I dont have all the parts for an oil change yet... my mini is going to the garage for some work done, shall i ask THEM to have a look instead of me trying and possibly failing?

[Bungle]

try a new copper washer first

[Ethel]

I think nylon would be a better option much harder to over tighten.

[dklawson]

Use the copper washers if you like them. However, the nylon ones seal easier, take a lot less torque, and therefore offer you less chance of damaging the sump plugs. Just because BMC/BL chose a copper washer nearly 50 years ago doesn't mean it's the best option today.

Where a HeliCoil has NOT been fitted, there's an even better option than the nylon washers. There are bonded metal/rubber seals that look like O-Rings stuck in the hole through a skinny metal washer. You tighten them up until you get metal-to-metal contact and you've squished the rubber enough to get a seal. They require almost no torque. They are not an option once a HeliCoil is fitted because the rubber would land in the oversized tap area for the HeliCoil and wouldn't have anything to seal against.
They look like this:
http://www.chuhung.c...onded-seals.gif
(sorry... it's an animated GIF. Focus on the ones that have the black rubber part in the center).

[taffy1967]

Use the copper washers if you like them. However, the nylon ones seal easier, take a lot less torque, and therefore offer you less chance of damaging the sump plugs. Just because BMC/BL chose a copper washer nearly 50 years ago doesn't mean it's the best option today.

Where a HeliCoil has NOT been fitted, there's an even better option than the nylon washers. There are bonded metal/rubber seals that look like O-Rings stuck in the hole through a skinny metal washer. You tighten them up until you get metal-to-metal contact and you've squished the rubber enough to get a seal. They require almost no torque. They are not an option once a HeliCoil is fitted because the rubber would land in the oversized tap area for the HeliCoil and wouldn't have anything to seal against.
They look like this:
http://www.chuhung.c...onded-seals.gif
(sorry... it's an animated GIF. Focus on the ones that have the black rubber part in the center).

Thanks dklawson and I bought one of those bonded metal/rubber seal type sump plugs from Halfords. Well it certainly looks like one of those in you're link, so I'll try using it to hopefully get an oil leak free seal, but as that bolt isn't fully tightening up now, I'd feel more confident taking it to that heli-coil specialist to sort it out.

Hopefully that sump plug will last long enough for me to get my Mini there anyway and I'd have thought a heli-coil would be the best option, especially if they can reuse my original sump plug with the magnet too?

[dklawson]

Since you anticipate having the local shop install the HeliCoil the bonded metal/rubber seal will probably NOT work for you. When the Helicoil is inserted there's an area around the entrance for the threaded hole in the sump that is not continuously flat. Since this area around the thread entrance isn't continuous and flat... and that's exactly where the rubber is on the seal... the seal may not work. It really depends on how large the diameter of rubber on the bonded seal is. Try the seal you bought but don't be disappointed if it drips. Just go find a nylon washer if you have to.

You do want to keep that stock plug with the magnet. It's your first defense against all the metal bits floating around in the sump.


SIDEBAR:
I used to own a Honda Accord (the upper end, non-Acura 4-door family sedan, whatever it's called in the U.K.). I took it to a quick oil change place and they didn't replace the aluminum washer for the drain plug. Eventually after repeated oil changes the aluminum gets sucked into the threads and galls them. They stripped my car's drain plug TWICE. Subsequently we started taking our Hondas to a different shop and they installed the coolest drain plug I've ever seen. On the underneath side of the plug's hex head there is a machined groove to hold a standard O-Ring seal. The O-Ring provides the same sealing benefits of the bonded washers I mentioned above. However, when the seal wears out it's a simple matter to pick out the old one and slip in a new one for only pennies. I should modify my Mini drain plug to do the same.

[taffy1967]

Since you anticipate having the local shop install the HeliCoil the bonded metal/rubber seal will probably NOT work for you.

It's the only course of action I can think of, because the bolt isn't going to screw tight enough now to prevent the oil leaking out. I doubt that bonded metal/rubber seal is going to stop it now and even if it did, I don't feel confident enough to drive around with a bolt that won't tighten up properly any more.

Naturally the last thing I want is for it to rattle loose and fall out along with the oil, leaving my engine and gearbox completely oil free.

I just hope a heli-coil will solve the problem once and for all and put an end to the oil leak.

[dklawson]

Let us know how the re-HeliCoil(ing) of the sump goes.

My point above regarding the bonded metal/rubber seals is that AFTER you have the HeliCoil installed there is less area for the rubber to seal against so you may need to use the nylon washers instead. When you do that first oil change it would be smart to have both washer types available.

[Retro_10s]

Never had a problem with the copper washer when torqued up correctly and both the mating surfaces were thoroughly cleaned etc... In any case, glad to see it's hopefully being sorted Taffy

Those Bonded plug washers with the Rubber seal are great... I found one big enough for my clubman and it worked great... but as said above, i wasn't leaking anyway so it wasn't really an improvement as such lol.

DKlawson to the rescue again!

Edited by Retro_10s, 25 July 2007 - 12:31 PM.

[taffy1967]

Thanks and I'll be booking it in soon, but I've always found the copper washers to be fine too and that's all I've ever used. So as long as the sump plug tightens up enough when the heli-coil is fitted, it should then hopefully continue to be leak free.

[taffy1967]

Let us know how the re-HeliCoil(ing) of the sump goes.

One year on and it's still fine.

I just had this little problem afterwards: -

http://www.theminifo...x...358&hl=tang

(Sorry for the thread resurrection, but I just wanted to give it a conclusion since someone else has the same problem).

Edited by taffy1967, 29 July 2008 - 02:00 PM.