28 replies to this topic

[Pepys]

I have looked several times but there doesn't seem to be a project where someone has used water based paint to do a respray. The Americans seem to be ahead on this. Has any one got any experience of doing this and which products to use? It is the future after all. |

Lechler Hydrofan at paints4u any good?

[cooper_shaz]

Water borne paints have some drawbacks:

First: Water borne paints are softer than acrylic oil based paints. The quick forced dry process using higher curing temperatures causes the paint to dry fast, but not as hard. As a result, these paints scratch more easily.

Second: Water borne paints also have difficulties with increased orange peal and production line runs and sags. The increased orange peal causes a reduction in overall smoothness and gloss.

Third: Water borne paints are also more porous than conventional acrylic finishes. This accelerates a process known as drift. Drift is the process of waxes and sealants soaking into the pores of the finish. Because the finish of a painted surface looks similar to the surface of the moon, peaks and valleys etc., as sealants heat and cool, they soak into the finish. Drift occurs in every known finish, however the water borne paint allows this process to occur much more rapidly, in some cases, even as short as a two week period of time. As drift occurs, the paint is left susceptible to the outdoor elements. This leads the paint to loose gloss and be susceptible to water spots, acid rain, industrial fallout and many other forms of foreign particles.

You need a higher cure temprature.. 60 degrees C ish.. and they paint is not as durable..

I was at a Toyota dealer just last week picking up some parts, and had a look at the new civic.. Boy oh boy was the paint finish poor.. I mean really poor, the surface was orange peely and the paint lacked any lustre.. this is a car that has been sitting in a showroom and polished frequently..!

I know all aint is going to go that way.. but nip along to a toyota showroom and look at the paint finish on their cars, look straight on and you will notice a distinct lack of shine.. I am not just saying it is Toyota as it is all switching thay way.
However, you can pay an extra £350 to have a coating applied to the paint to make it more durable..

Hmm so lets see, I buy a brand new car and have to pay extra if I want my paint to last...
Anyone see a flaw in this plan ??

[panelbeaterpeter]

Hmm.. I think Cooper is going a bit OTT there, Water based paint isn't that much different to solvent based, it's the same lacquer after all, seems no-ones invented a water based lacquer yet. So I don't see what you're saying about the final finish being any different making much sense. I about 3-4 cars every day using water based paint, and the only problems I have are; when painting clear over base, the base isn't as re-workable as solvent, so if the prepper has missed a scratch, you often have to remove all the paint off the panel and start again. This is due to it being alot softer, and not drying as hard as solvent. This is more of a problem with colours rich in mettallic, such as light silver based colours. When sprayign solids, I have noticed very little difference from solvent, and it always buffs up nicely. I find colour matching is also more of a problem with water based, the colour chips rarely are the same as the sprayed product. This using a cheapo Lesonal scheme, so It probably would'nt be an issue with a decent quality scheme such as lechler or DuPont.

Basically, Water is perfectly fine, a perfectly good finish can be obtained with ease if you know how to use it.

It much more expensive than solvent based paint, but I'm sure prices will go down as it is brought into use my all garages.

I personally would always choose solvent based paint for my own cars, and will continue to do so until it's made illegal!

Sorry for the lecture

Pete.

[roofless]

One of guys I work with has just had all the panels for his Laverda bike done with a water based paint and the results were pretty good, high reflection and good colour depth. The paint did appear to have gone on very thick though and has a few runs / gloopy bits in places but i guess thats probably more to do with the skills of the sprayer.

[panelbeaterpeter]

The paint did appear to have gone on very thick though and has a few runs / gloopy bits in places but i guess thats probably more to do with the skills of the sprayer.

Yeah that's to do with application of the lacquer. Nothing to do with the fact its water based.

[Jobu]

I find colour matching is also more of a problem with water based, the colour chips rarely are the same as the sprayed product.

Pete, at the weekend i sprayed my engine bay in the original colour using water based. The colour has turned out darker, could the water based paint be the reason for this? It was Glasurite paint, and the paint on the rest of the car is 30 years old but in very good condition. The colour is Reynard met apparently abit of a pig to match anyway?

[panelbeaterpeter]

I find colour matching is also more of a problem with water based, the colour chips rarely are the same as the sprayed product.

Pete, at the weekend i sprayed my engine bay in the original colour using water based. The colour has turned out darker, could the water based paint be the reason for this? It was Glasurite paint, and the paint on the rest of the car is 30 years old but in very good condition. The colour is Reynard met apparently abit of a pig to match anyway?

Yeah it could be part of the problem, although there are usually several shades of each colour, ie; dark, light, blue, red, yellow, etc etc so you always have to make sure you choose the correct variant of that particular colour. If you order paint without giving a variant, you will always be supplied with the standard shade, unless you ask for otherwise. About 50% of the time cars are painted the standard shade anyway, but if you're unhappy with the colour, go to a bodyshop and look at their colour chips.

Pete.

[Jobu]

Yeah it could be part of the problem, although there are usually several shades of each colour, ie; dark, light, blue, red, yellow, etc etc so you always have to make sure you choose the correct variant of that particular colour. If you order paint without giving a variant, you will always be supplied with the standard shade, unless you ask for otherwise. About 50% of the time cars are painted the standard shade anyway, but if you're unhappy with the colour, go to a bodyshop and look at their colour chips.

Pete.

Thanks pete, i got the paint mixed up from scratch at my works, i got all the base mixing quantities from the glasurite website and the only option for shades was standard. Im just confused as to why its come out different, besides that the finish was good. It must have been a 'light' shade on the car originaly.

[steveobennet]

some of the new fords that go through are work now have the water based paint. i know that they now use it on fiestas and to be perfectly honest it looks pretty C**p. the colours are vibrant, well some ford colours are! and the finish is very flexable and durable. the only thing i'm not happy with is the orange peel effect. i think several early stages of the painting process it is dipped, and for the rest it is sprayed.

[jonny d]

Hi i am very interrested in spraying, is the water based paint
as easy to apply as celly, and is it suitable for DIY how do you dry it
and for how long?

[panelbeaterpeter]

Hi i am very interrested in spraying, is the water based paint
as easy to apply as celly, and is it suitable for DIY how do you dry it
and for how long?

I personally would never try spraying water based as a DIY job, you dry it using a special air blower that sucks warm air out of the spray booth and blows it onto the job. You cannot dry it with cold air, takes hours and hours! you really do need an oven to bake it. I've tried spraying small jobs outside of the booth using it, and the results were very dissapointing. This is one of the main reasons it is being brought in, to stop people doing jobs themselves. This is one of the reasons I'm against it.

Pete

Edited by panelbeaterpeter, 18 April 2007 - 06:57 AM.

[Pepys]

Thanx for the advice peeps.

So is the future really black for home sprayers? Celly and 2K gone, and we're all left with water based which we can't use 'because we don't have a booth. Is that really it?

[Woody]

I get my new water based mixing scheam in two weeks
I can not get enuf 2K for a full respray on a mini because the suplyers have run out of tinters
I was very lucky two weeks ago , i had a scooby respray to do and managed to get enuf 2K by ringing round and getting it of two seperate suplyers
(i run a profesional body/paintshop with a proper booth)

[ian]

Thanx for the advice peeps.

So is the future really black for home sprayers? Celly and 2K gone, and we're all left with water based which we can't use 'because we don't have a booth. Is that really it?

this could be completely wrong, but this is what my paint supplier told me last weekend, you will still be able to buy celly and 2k, but.......
you have to go to france to buy it.
the french goverment tried bringing in the ban too, but the french wouldnt stand for it and threatened to down tools and strike, as per normal they got away with it, not like us english lol.

only problem i can see with this is once the french realise what we are doing the price per ltr will rocket. and then your have customs ready to snatch it of you when you come back.

this could be all cr*p as i said, but its what i was told.

[Geehawk]

So what about aerosols ???

Are they going water based too?? Is that even possible ??