217 replies to this topic

[dean_chad]

mmmmmmmmmm carbon! how jelious am > , my custom dash never turned up because of thieving scum ( can you tell im still bitter) so ended up with fibreglass. Have you got all your instruments marked out yet? or is that a job for next weekend?

Dean

[adyzr1]

mmmmmmmmmm carbon! how jelious am > , my custom dash never turned up because of thieving scum ( can you tell im still bitter) so ended up with fibreglass. Have you got all your instruments marked out yet? or is that a job for next weekend?

Dean

Really sorry to here about theives dean , i know you were waiting ages for that dash,...... but still your car is looking great!!!

just ordered digidash, im workin nites at the minute so ive got the afternoons on my car, just sussing steering column at the moment,(fabricating brackets) because the car is going through sva ive got to make a collapsible collumn with universal joints etc (it will be collapsible with my welding haha ) .Fitting makes life difficult, but at least i can alter the steering geometry ,as markrally says it improves the driveability aswell.

[pete]

When you've finished fabricating the steering column your more than welcome to pop over and do another . Starting to work mine out now but can't decide whether to use mini column and modify or escort/corsa column and modify. Hmmmm decisions decisions.
Good news is that i've found some fluid level switches small enough to fit into the kad supplied master cylinders so I don't have to have seperate reservoirs. Couldn't get the reservoirs high enough to work due to the minus bulkhead being lower > .

Dash looks really good. Definately suits the car.

Pete

[adyzr1]

thanks pete,

i have used an austin allegro column, this comes complete with universal joints, + the benefit is the splines are the same as a mini, and i can use a mini steering wheel , i have fabricated a simple bracket, i will post some pics.

I have a nova column with collapsable section in mint condition if you want it (free of charge) !

[pete]

Thanks for the offer but got to use all new parts to get a new plate. Did you get a new allegro column and if so then where from???
Hadn't looked at this route as I didn't think I would be able to get a new one, or is this just for the sva and then change it afterwards .

Pete

[koss]

Firstly happy birthday Ady

Why the collapsible steering column on a standard sva amature built vehicle?
I have a test in 2 weeks I will ask when I go there.

There is no type approval on a amature built vehicle surely.

[adyzr1]

hi koss,
First of all thanks for my birthday wishes, very observant!!
yeah the test is british type approval, pete has spoken to VOSA in depth about this particular area, any vehicle produced after 1996 has to have a collapsable elment or offset using universal joints.

The sva for amatuer built vehicles consists of the following tests

+Anti-theft devices – An item such as a battery "kill" switch will do or steering lock

+Defrosting – Must be fitted with as system capable of giving the driver an adequate view ahead. Ducted heater air or embedded electric elements are both acceptable.

+Wipers – Must move automatically. Must park so as not to obstruct driver’s view.

+Seats – Must be firmly fixed. (penny washers used to spread the load of bolts)

+Seat belts – Must be fitted with required number of anchorage points and be located at the correct height.

+Interior – Must have no sharp or protruding edges. (bottom edge of dash radius 19mm , switches and anything else radius 2.5mm , anything projecting down from roof radius 5mm)

+Radio suppression – Must have suppression fitted.(this is to do with spark pug leads, yamaha ones will be fine)

+Glass – Windows must be made of safety glass and of a recognised standard and marked by the manufacturer NOT by a glass agent.

+Lights – Obligatory lights must be in the required positions, right colours and intensity and visible from required angles. Must not be sited below minimum height.

+Mirrors - Checks for positions, and field of vision. (must be able to see markers held at various positions to rear of car)

+Tyres - Speed and load rating must be correct and must be "E" marked.

+Doors etc - Must be capable of being securely latched with a 2-stage latch.

+Exterior - Between floor and a height of 2 meters nothing must catch or risk injury to any person who could come into contact with the vehicle. Projections are dealt with here.(everything must have radius of 2.5mm)

+protective steering- collapsable element or offset with universal joints (or combination of both) and a padded steering wheel

+Design & Construction – Deals with all aspects of design safety and ensures that no danger is caused to any vehicle occupants or other road users.

+Brakes - Vehicle must conform to listed operations, five tests are performed with ever increasing pedal pressure on the front and then the rear wheels.(checks for front/rear balance, also straps a sensor to his foot to compare amount of human force compared to braking power

+Noise - Checks that exhaust system is complete a silencer is fitted and that 101db is not exceeded. (hmmmmm)

+Emissions - Checked via an approved and calibrated exhaust gas analyser. (catalyst test)

+Speedometer - Checks accuracy of speedo within defined limits. (cannot read slower than actual speed)

+Weights - Checks maximum gross weight and max permitted axle weights are not less then weights calculated using kerbside weights and passenger weight (design weights are to check the max weight of the vehicle with a full tank of petrol ,a driver and passenger on board,you have to fill this info on the application form, this info is then fed into the computer for the brake test to make sure of efficiency of the braking system i.e the brakes are powerful enough to stop the weight of the car.

(pete if you get the design weights wrong on the form this is classed as a fail when they weight the car but you can fill out a declaration of the correct weight at the test.)



pete, i got the column from brand new old stock with a receipt and box! he only had one though

Edited by adyzr1, 23 February 2007 - 04:57 AM.

[pete]

(pete if you get the design weights wrong on the form this is classed as a fail when they weight the car but you can fill out a declaration of the correct weight at the test.)



pete, i got the column from brand new old stock with a receipt and box! he only had one though

Happy birthday Ady.

weight won't be an issue as it will probably have been up to Chris's to have the suspension and corner weights done. If not then I will use Ade's weight as a good estimate.

Lucky buy on the column. Think I will be getting an escort one off of ebay(or nick it off the wifes car when she's not looking ) to check fitting and then get Andy to buy a new one.

sva looks so easy when you list it out like that . What you doing for the cat?

[adyzr1]

pete

my friend who owns mac 1 motorsport (company that builds seven replica kit cars) is going to come to sva with me , if you have a power commander you can map it at the test to the correct emmisions with a lap top, (they know him well at notts sva station so will allow this) they also have a cat exhaust can for the test, dont know what i'll fit after


mac 1 motorsports

Edited by adyzr1, 24 February 2007 - 03:20 AM.

[koss]

Ady I have just been talking to my favourite sva tester about steering, and he seems to think there is other options.
Collapsible boss,Rack is mounted to the rear of the axle (to the shell) and not the impactable subframe.
We are going to have a good look at the car and the book next Wednesday.

Forgot to mention the sva rules are a guideline and it is up to the individual testers digression and may vary from other test stations.

I will let you know what we find.

Edited by koss, 28 February 2007 - 10:41 AM.

[pete]

Ady I have just been talking to my favourite sva tester about steering, and he seems to think there is other options.
Collapsible boss,Rack is mounted to the rear of the axle (to the shell) and not the impactable subframe.
We are going to have a good look at the car and the book next Wednesday.

Forgot to mention the sva rules are a guideline and it is up to the individual testers digression and may vary from other test stations.

I will let you know what we find.

Koss, this would be good if it's found to be ok. Was`planning to start modifying a fiesta column next week so will hold off until later.This is a copy of one of the e-mail's I got from VOSA's technical department:

Good afternoon Mr. White,

Your question has been passed to me from our enquiry unit. I shall firstly explain the background to your enquiry, then go in to the exact detail of your question.

From your enquiry, I am assuming that you are building a space frame design, with fibreglass bodyshell attached and that you are going to present the vehicle for a Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) test as an Amateur Built vehicle. If this is the case, your vehicle will be assessed to todays standards regarding safety. The original Mini was, as you stated, not built to this standard, but your vehicle is a new vehicle and as such has to meet new vehicle standards. Unfortunately if you use the steering column from a new Mini, I am afraid you will still have problems, because the new steering column will be fitted with an Air-bag (to meet the new regulations for production vehicles). You would have to be able to prove that the trigger mechanism had been designed to work as the manufacturer had intended, which of course would not be possible in this case.

However, things are not quite as bad as they first seem. The actual requirements that will be applied to your vehicle, at the time of its test, are two-fold;
Neither the wheel and column assembly or the wheel alone provides
equivalent protection to that required by an approved wheel or approved
wheel/column assembly.
When assessed in relation to the vehicle design characteristics, the
steering column and its shaft do not incorporate an adequate design
feature likely to minimise upper column displacement during a vehicle
frontal impact.

What this translates in to, is in fact fairly straight forward. The first item simply means that so long as the steering wheel has an energy absorbing feature (such as a collapsable boss or thick padding of the type found on a production car) it has met the requirements. Many Kit Car builders simply fit the steering wheel from a vehicle such as a Ford Sierra to meet this regulation. The second item refers to the need for the steering column to absorb some of the impact during a head on collision to minimise injury. In practice this can be achieved by various methods, such as the use of telescopic shafts, sliding clamps, disengagement devices, collapsible columns, or offsetting of the column, (using universal joints) or any combination of these systems. So long as it is reasonable to expect that the column would offer a degree of protection in an impact, the regulations have been met. You would have to look closely at the steering assembly as a whole, while making this assessment, including the position and method of locating the steering rack.

I do hope this information has been helpful, but should you require any further advice please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Best regards,


Mark Vickers
Technical Officer
Single Vehicle Approval

Would be interesting to get a testers view of this.
Thanks for the help
Pete

[Renessy]

'Gulp' Just want to hear yes or no....

I can still use the standard mini steering colomn, right?

(Far to technical in English for me......)

René

[koss]

A bit more reading on type approval


SUMMARY OF REQUIREMENTS
a. The steering wheel shall be designed, constructed and fitted so as not to comprise either
any dangerous roughness or sharp edges likely to increase the danger or severity of injuries to
the driver in the event of frontal impact.
b. The steering wheel shall be designed, constructed and fitted so as not to embody
components or accessories, including the horn control and other assemblies, capable of
catching in the drivers clothing or jewellery, in normal driving movement. Requirements a) and
B) may be deemed to be met if no part of the surface directed towards the driver which can be
contacted with a sphere of 165mm dia. presents any roughness or edges with a radius of
curvature of less than 2.5mm. In the case of a projection consisting of a component made of
non-rigid material having a Shore A hardness of less than 50 mounted on a rigid support, the
requirements shall apply to the rigid support.
c. The wheel and column assembly shall offer a degree of protection to the driver in the event
of a frontal impact. This may be deemed to be met if a previously approved wheel and column
assembly is fitted using comparable mounting arrangements to that of the approved installation
or if a steering wheel approved as a separate technical unit is used.
d. The vehicle and steering column assembly shall be designed so as to ensure that in the
event of a frontal impact at 30 mph the rearward horizontal displacement of the top of the
steering column and its shaft does not exceed 127mm.
This may be deemed to be met if the floor pan or chassis structure, front suspension and
subframes, steering column assembly and mountings, and engine and engine mounting
arrangements (if front engined) are the same as a previously approved vehicle. Other methods
will be assessed on a case by case basis e.g. if it can be shown that the steering column and
assembly is mounted through an arrangement of universal joints and/or collapsible tubes that
ensures that displacement is absorbed. Computer simulations to calculate impact
displacement can be presented but proof of the programmes validation through practical
testing will be needed.
As the design of the body/chassis structure is crucial to this requirement, the method of proving
compliance should be discussed as early as possible

I think on a frontal impact where the front subframe pushes the rack back, the steering wheel actually moves forward, pivoting on the top mount. The problem would be providing evidence. Unless anyone knows someone who will drive a z-cars mini into a concrete block at 30mph
We shall see and ady sorry for the hijack mate.

[ed4ran]

Unless anyone knows someone who will drive a z-cars mini into a concrete block at 30mph

Hasnt that already happened to MiniDan?

[Alburglar]

Ady i'd really appreciate a couple of pics of what you've done with the allegro coloumn I'm gonna do the same thing myself.