26 replies to this topic

[mvahora]

The video you've been watching is the one I used. That is Ross from Thomas Modern and Classic. Aren't they quite respected in the UK for their Mini restoration work?

 

in his defense tho he has written in the comments section that in his personal cars he does "set them slightly slacker than this. Generally moving by hand not using the spanner"

 

I guess its better to follow the shop manual as spider posted. 

[mvahora]

The best thing I ever did was buy the sealed ball joints

 

might consider that next time but they're soo expensive. how do they hold up compared to the standard ball joints? now that I've got the feel for shimming id prob stick to shimming because the joints are so cheap  

[petey81]

The best thing I ever did was buy the sealed ball joints

might consider that next time but they're soo expensive. how do they hold up compared to the standard ball joints? now that I've got the feel for shimming id prob stick to shimming because the joints are so cheap

Really good. I haven't checked them since install which is about 2 years and no MOT garage mentioning play 😂 plus only greased on install. I purchased them in the sale so take a look out.

[Spider]

 

The best thing I ever did was buy the sealed ball joints

 

might consider that next time but they're soo expensive. how do they hold up compared to the standard ball joints? now that I've got the feel for shimming id prob stick to shimming because the joints are so cheap  

 

 

There are a couple of different types on the market, have a read of this thread from about post #25 onwards;-

 

https://www.theminif...om-japan/page-2

 

[mbolt998]

Mini Ball Joints - like everything else ! - are quite different. They are all hardened parts - precision hardened parts - rubbing on each other, so lubrication is critical. There is no 'give' in them and so if set tight, even a small bit, they wear like crazy.

This explains a lot. Minis were always failing MOTs back in the day for "excess play in ball joints" (and probably still do). Testers used to newer cars didn't understand that a little bit of movement is acceptable, and then people fitting them shim them up far too tight creating a vicious circle.

[stuart bowes]

I'm a bit confused about this now though, can someone clarify..

 

if wear over time is expected / acceptable, and you can carry on using them once worn (by removing shims or changing to thinner shims) then what is the issue with setting them nice and tight (within reason) and letting them wear to a point where it moves nicely? accepting the inevitable that over time either way you're still going to get the point where that wear becomes too much and you have to re-shim anyway

 

surely by being that bit looser you're just going to be closer to the point where you need to re-do them, isn't it an option to just have them slightly tighter to start with

 

or am I missing something

 

I'm just thinking after reading all this I might have another look at mine (not fitted yet fortunately) as it sounds like I might have set them just slightly too stiff.  can move by hand, but it doesn't just 'drop' by itself and there's no grease in them yet.  what I don't want though is to go too far the other way.  I have one thin shim on each IIRC

Edited by stuart bowes, 16 April 2025 - 10:45 AM.

[Spider]

I'm a bit confused about this now though, can someone clarify..

 

if wear over time is expected / acceptable, and you can carry on using them once worn (by removing shims or changing to thinner shims) then what is the issue with setting them nice and tight (within reason) and letting them wear to a point where it moves nicely? accepting the inevitable that over time either way you're still going to get the point where that wear becomes too much and you have to re-shim anyway

 

surely by being that bit looser you're just going to be closer to the point where you need to re-do them, isn't it an option to just have them slightly tighter to start with

 

or am I missing something

 

I'm just thinking after reading all this I might have another look at mine (not fitted yet fortunately) as it sounds like I might have set them just slightly too stiff.  can move by hand, but it doesn't just 'drop' by itself and there's no grease in them yet.  what I don't want though is to go too far the other way.  I have one thin shim on each IIRC

 

In my view, once they are worn, they can't be re-shimmed. They don't wear evenly all round but in 'spots / patches'. So, how do you re-shim them ? It will end up both tight and loose, depending on what angle you are holding it at. In other words, it's worn out and needs replacing. It's like a tyre that's been flat spotted. There's no way to re-fit it that makes it right.

The shims are not there as a service adjustment, only as a fitting adjustment.

 

Some small space - I'll steer you to the workshop manual " no nip to 0.003" " - is needed for grease. Set them tight and that just wipes the grease away the first time it moves. The grease is needed between the parts, it's 'tacky' so it stays put on the surface of the parts, but if the parts have no gap, then it just gets pushed to the side where it's of no value.

[stuart bowes]

ah so that's where I misunderstood then, i'd read about 'reshimming' but that's actually just a bodge then ?

 

I was actually just linishing the ball cup gradually down to the point where the tightness is good, and leaving a shim in purely so that they could be reused in future.  so I might as well just keep the shim as im so close, just linish it a tiny bit more,  this time with the DTI to check grease clearance.  at least that way if I go too far I can still take out the shim and try again

 

or.. I'm wondering if I do a bit of lapping in that might free it up the right amount

Edited by stuart bowes, 16 April 2025 - 11:18 AM.

[Spider]

As mentioned above, in my view, they can't be re-shimmed, so to do so in my view is a bodge.

 

I'm not sure why you'd be linishing the Cup ?

 

I'm not in favour of lapping. I'm not saying 'no' but really, it should not be needed. The original joints fitting on production from start to finish of production had a ground finish, they really were precision parts.

I've had new joints in recent-ish times (Unipart s one that comes to mind), that felt just dreadful when trying to fit them up. They took some doing and I did lap them in (together with the guy who bought them), but if they are quality parts, fit for purpose, they shouldn't need lapping. As a post note to these, they only lasted him about 2 years as after lapping the hard case that was left was wafer thin and we could see where it had flaked off in a few spots.

So, before lapping, how deep is the hardened case ?

[stuart bowes]

 

I'm not sure why you'd be linishing the Cup ?

 

 

I may have used the wrong description there..   the part that screws on over the top and holds the balljoint in place?  

 

linishing the flat bottom side of that just means it threads on further and tightens the connection with the ball.  It was WAY too loose to start with I'd have needed like 5 shims or something

 

although now I just realise.. to make it looser I would need to add a shim wouldn't I .. duh

 

these are not expected to be 'quality parts' in fairness, I have no idea about the case hardening thickness so maybe I will just try a light lapping first and see where that gets me before messing about too much.  the grease 'slot' is there and visually at least looks sufficient maybe.  I could always buy more they weren't bank breaking items

Edited by stuart bowes, 16 April 2025 - 11:43 AM.

[imack]

I used to mot a lot of minis in the 80's and 90's. We would often see the swivel caps come loose when people incorrectly 'shimmed' the swivel pins with inadequate clearance. The swivel caps coming loose in turn wears the threads on the swivel hub and then the ball joint falls off.
Never set the swivel pin clearances too tight. The old swivel kits used to come with a much more varied set of shims than the current kits come with.

[mvahora]

Some really good information. The post should be pinned.

Edited by mvahora, 17 April 2025 - 12:39 AM.