16 replies to this topic

[jackclancy]

Hi everyone, 

 

I am really struggling with welding at the moment. Whatever I do I cant seem to stop getting burn through. It might perhaps be my welder, its electric. Its a Draper 120A Gasless MIG Welder Set. I cannot reduce the amperage on it.

 

I was wondering if there is anyone on here that lives in London that might want to come help me for a day. Essentially to teach me how to do it. I want to do my car properly so think it would be good to learn from someone who knows what they are doing, rather than end up botching it! I can pay obviously. 

 

Let me know if anyone is keen, lives nearby and has a welder!

 

I attach some images of bits that need doing. Its mostly lots of small bits. I need to clean the areas up first of course.

 

:)

 

 

[stuart bowes]

Sadly I think you're a little past 'a load of small bits' with this one, it's been patched already a number of times, and really if you do want to do it properly (and fair play for that) then I think you really should be replacing with quite a lot of complete new panels

 

for examples

• someone's patched up the crossmember under the seats, but it would be a lot easier and really not that expensive (probably even less time consuming) to just replace the whole thing.  also when you do that you can clean up underneath it 
• whereas, the actual floorpan itself and the roof are both definitely not simple jobs, and if possible it's probably better / more efficient to make good repairs with fabricated sections 
• the A post looks a bit shonky, you might want to replace that with new because it's an important structural piece
• the step / rear quarter repair is pretty bad, depending how bad the rest of the rear quarter is I might want to do a new rear quarter and seperately a new step

and so on

 

(these are just my opinions for what that's worth)

 

instead of jumping straight into the welding I'd suggest more of an admin task first, go round panel by panel, work out which ones you're replacing and which ones you're repairing (Also how much money are planning to spend)  as you start to work out which bits need doing you'll start realising what other jobs make sense.  like sometimes to replace a panel you'll say well i might as well also replace x y z.  

 

that's a bit vague but hopefully you see what I'm getting at

 

having someone round to talk to you about that is probably time better spent at this point.  then later think about how to actually do the welding itself  (some of which could be renting a spot welder)

 

where abouts in london are you?

Edited by stuart bowes, 01 April 2025 - 09:33 PM.

[gaspen]

A gasless MIG welder is not a best choice for thin sheet metal as it uses more amper. 

Edited by gaspen, 01 April 2025 - 09:15 AM.

[greenwheels]

See i f you can find a local collage that does a welding course.

[weef]

I wouldn't worry about your welding repairs just yet, from your pictures the previous repairer certainly didn't.

Welding is a skill that needs practice and I would suggest you start with some test pieces using a material thickness that you intend to repair.

Generally that will range from 0.9 to 1.5 mm, these being the most commom sizes you'll come across in cars.

Welding good clean steel can be hard enough, if your not experienced, so master that skill, play with your welder settings and get a feel for it.

To start off with just run beads of weld along your test pieces, joining metal comes later, and once you can run a bead without burning through, you cn move to thinking about joining bits.

Take your time and practice becoming more confident as you go, you have to be able to do possitional welds as well, welding upside down, uphill welding, downhill welding right to left and left to right, skilled guys make this look easy but it isn,t. Once you have mastered the basics its time to think about repairs to your car remembering repairing rusty holes is at least ten times harder.

I don't know if this will help you progress your job but having these welding skills is a must if you intend tackling what you are faced with.

Good luck.

[stuart bowes]

sound advice there

 

what you're trying to do is build up a long weld out of short bursts, especially with thin sheet, you're basically building up a series of tacks to make one long weld

 

so, not this

 

 

but this, with very slight circular movements to hit both sides, but not wildly waving about, probably like a mm or so each way

 

 

steady the end with a well supported left hand (like playing snooker) and find a relaxed comfortable position to sit / kneel / lean against, it makes a big difference

 

torch end about 8-10mm from the work, at about 70deg angle. to end up with this (ideally)

 

 

that's with gas anyway, I don't know anything about gasless

 

so you could practise that on some scraps first

 

would also be remiss of me not to point out the obvious - correct PPE, correct mask with right level of shading, gloves, long sleeves, extinguisher nearby, etc

Edited by stuart bowes, 01 April 2025 - 11:07 AM.

[Ethel]

It looks like what you're trying to weld is at least half the problem. The steel will be very inconsistent where there was rust. Gasless actually copes better with rust because the flux absorbs the oxygen, not just shielding the molten metal from it.

 

It's like lightening, the arc will tend to strike to the most concentrated potential (sharp edges) and follow the path of least resistance once it's struck.

 

Like Stuart says, aim to put the heat in  to the larger & thicker piece which will need more to melt & move the torch to bridge the join so both parts get molten & can fuse together.

 

Gasless is much the same, you won't have to worry about getting outside the shield, but if the torch is too far away the exposed wire will burn back because it has to take all the current & heat without any help from the nozzle tip.

[stuart bowes]

another thing to point out, your 2nd picture the metal has 'blued' which is probably because it's got real thin at that point

 

I would cut a big square around all of that and put a new piece in. again, depending on if the rest of the panel is staying, and not more cost / time efficient (or other reasons) to just replace it 

Edited by stuart bowes, 01 April 2025 - 09:35 PM.

[jackclancy]

Hi all. Thanks for the advice. If I could find someone who can come have a look that would be ideal as you say. I do think it would be beneficial if I can get someone to help me (paid) on the car for a few days, so I can get the hang of it from an expert.

 

to be honest I am also slightly weighing up the option of taking it to someone as is now. I am already planning to send it to someone once the body is ready. At the moment I am going to get them to; fit a new bulkhead with box section, fit new step on passenger side, paint it, weld roll cage in and fit an RK1 engine kit. I will then take over from there. It is gonna be a 200 odd bhp beast racer that I will have for god knows how long, so I do just want/need it to be in top condition. I am conscious of the cost of the body repairs on top of everything else too though as its getting to be a LOT. So far it seems as though the following is necessary though;

- new bulkhead (with box section)

- new A post 

- new crossmember

- potentially new rear quarter 

 

I don't have much of an idea as to the cost of that though! I presume not cheap.

 

Oh and the car is in Bow, East London.

Edited by jackclancy, 01 April 2025 - 02:07 PM.

[sonikk4]

Going to be very blunt here, the existing welding on the car is so substandard to be dangerous.

 

A lot of those exisiting welds are liiterally doing nothing at all. Most of them should be seam welds and not tiny tacks. 

 

Sorry but the strength in that shell has been badly compromised and in my eyes would need cutting out completely and redone correctly.

 

And judging by the amount of grinding marks i can see, the metal in those areas will be paper thin.

 

So to remedy all of that professionally would totally outweigh the value of the shell. Your gasless welder i would sell it on and buy a gas MIG. Learn with that, get yourself up to a reasonable standard and start to replace ALL of the previously welded areas. Its all doable but needs to be do correctly.

[Ethel]

It's likely the welder can run gas too. There's no substitute for practise. Even if you find somebody to guide & assist, you're likely to pick it up quicker joining bits of clean, thicker steel at a bench, or where you can get comfortable with a good view & plenty of light to what you're up to before the arc strikes.

[stuart bowes]

have you considered possibly looking at other shells, you might well find that spending £1500-2000 on something more rescuable is cheaper in the long run than the amount of work required to put yours right

 

there will still be plenty of repairs required, just less.  plenty of things will need welding worry not

Edited by stuart bowes, 01 April 2025 - 09:41 PM.

[jackclancy]

Ahhh noooo. Worse than I thought!! Ok this needs a total rethink then! But very glad I posted on here as at least I know now. Yes it could be that purchasing another at that price range is my best option now I suppose.


Something like this perhaps

https://www.ebay.co....emis&media=COPY

[68+86auto]

I would definitely look at buying a better mini than what you've got as fixing dodgy work is harder than fixing rust. It looks like you'd be replacing most of the panels.

Edited by 68+86auto, 01 April 2025 - 11:29 PM.

[stuart bowes]

Be careful of potential ebay scams especially when they seem too cheap to be true

But taking it at face value then yeah you can tell straight away it's a million times better

Edited by stuart bowes, 01 April 2025 - 10:57 PM.