19 replies to this topic

[Ichbineinmini]

Short version here, longer version below if you want. I'm still in the learning process so excuse if terms and holes in knowledge. 

 

TLDR

Front LH/RH quarter floor panels welded in, now deciding to remove cover sills, repair, fit outer sill possibly inner.

Question do new floor panels need to be cut out (undo work) or can they be welded up to and still be as strong as doing job in one IE floor panel with inner sill/outer sill.  

 

 

 

I'm not a welder, so found someone who welds and has worked on Mini's - not a specialist but they were local and had good feedback. 

 

MOT failed car on holes in body work, holes in front floor pans, nearside seat belt anchor. 

 

As didn't want to do new front end that's been patched to a fair standard for now. Front quarter floor panels (M Machine/Heritage) were fitted.

 

Car has over sills and I asked a few times shouldn't we remove them while we are at it, I am willing to spend more money to future proof the car somewhat. No, no need we are only working to MOT fail list.

 

Welding work finished, they advised that drivers side sill looked 'home made' and should have work done and probably nearside, but they didn't want to do it as it meant undoing what they'd done. 

 

Can't quite fathom that logic even now. 

 

Following a frank phone call they have agreed to do more work, do the new floor pans have to come out and new fitted with the inner sill 'tabs'?  I had bought them these panels to fit but they cut off the tabs (inner sill I think?)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ichbineinmini, 06 March 2025 - 10:07 PM.

[Ichbineinmini]

Edited to add IMGUR links 

Edited by Ichbineinmini, 06 March 2025 - 10:09 PM.

[stuart bowes]

I'm not sure what they're saying exactly maybe I'm misunderstanding the post

 

outer sills just overlap onto the floorpan, and meet up with the door step so before putting them on you do have to make sure the floorpan/inner sills are complete 

 

the floorpan and inner sills can be made complete by fabricating pieces to fill whatever gaps have been left ? it's not that complicated really as long as it suits the original design

 

what I don't understand is, the first picture shows a gap in the front right of the footwell, but then there's a series of pictures of it being completed and all seam sealed up, so what bit is now still missing ?

[mab01uk]

What you have had done is not very pretty as a 'restoration job' but may be good enough to get the car through the MOT for a few more years.

 

However to do a neater more 'future proof' repair eg. fully remove over sills, repair, fit new outer sills, possibly new inner sills as you mentioned is probably going to need much of the previous welding work to be undone/cut out and possibly another set of replacement floor panels purchased. Unless this is your 'forever Mini' project and you wish to invest much more time in what may easily become a money pit, it may be better to just get an MOT and use the car in the meantime.....and then decide what you want to do for the long term and maybe learn how to weld, to save paying others who often only provide cheaper 'MOT pass' repairs, rather than more expensive full restoration to original spec type work.

Edited by mab01uk, 07 March 2025 - 10:35 AM.

[Ichbineinmini]

I'm not sure what they're saying exactly maybe I'm misunderstanding the post

 

outer sills just overlap onto the floorpan, and meet up with the door step so before putting them on you do have to make sure the floorpan/inner sills are complete 

 

the floorpan and inner sills can be made complete by fabricating pieces to fill whatever gaps have been left ? it's not that complicated really as long as it suits the original design

 

what I don't understand is, the first picture shows a gap in the front right of the footwell, but then there's a series of pictures of it being completed and all seam sealed up, so what bit is now still missing ?

The photos are mostly 'after' I put one 'before photo' in to show what they were repairing

[stuart bowes]

that's what I figured.. so what is it that's stopping them cutting off the dodgy outer sill and going back to just floorpan and step, which is presumably complete, and welding on a new outer sill

 

I don't get it

[Ichbineinmini]

What you have had done is not very pretty as a 'restoration job' but may be good enough to get the car through the MOT for a few more years.

 

However to do a neater more 'future proof' repair eg. fully remove over sills, repair, fit new outer sills, possibly new inner sills as you mentioned is probably going to need much of the previous welding work to be undone/cut out and possibly another set of replacement floor panels purchased. Unless this is your 'forever Mini' project and you wish to invest much more time in what may easily become a money pit, it may be better to just get an MOT and use the car in the meantime.....and then decide what you want to do for the long term and maybe learn how to weld, to save paying others who often only provide cheaper 'MOT pass' repairs, rather than more expensive full restoration to original spec type work.

 

Thanks for the reply. 

 

The car failed the MOT so I thought I would address those issues and was willing to spend a bit more than just the MOT fails as I think that is sensible maintenance. 

 

What you've said is how I understand the build up of the car panels, outer sill connected to inner sill that is part of the floor panel - did I get that right?
 

To do a better job they would have taken off the cover sills, repaired what is behind, cut out the front quarter panel and welded back in a front quarter with inner sill and outer sill. 

 

I'm bothered by the outer sills as I don't know what is behind and concerned about strength. So as you say I could leave it alone or ask them to take them off. 

 

Option 1. Cover sills off, repair what's behind, fit new outer sill to existing inner or some kind of patchwork 

 

Option 2. Cut out what they'v done and start again. 

[Ichbineinmini]

that's what I figured.. so what is it that's stopping them cutting off the dodgy outer sill and going back to just floorpan and step, which is presumably complete, and welding on a new outer sill

 

I don't get it

 

I don't get why they didn't want to do it, or why they didn't do it in the first place. 

 

Now that they are willing to do more work - do you reckon cutting off cover sill, repairing then fitting new outer sill to what is in photos is a good enough job?

 

Feel like I'm coming over as a wally, someone who welds should know what they're doing so I don't have to ask advice here  

[stuart bowes]

not at all nothing wrong with asking questions is there

 

personally I can't see anything missing in the photos where everything is painted red (on the inside) 

 

others with longer experience may spot something ?

 

in theory, cutting off the outer sill leaves everything in place on the inside, put on a new sill.. unless the garage has seen something that isn't obvious in the pics ?  I would ask them for more specific detail about why they can't replace the outer sills.  I suppose they might mean taking off the outer sills will expose issues underneath (quite possibly) and therefore the inner sills will need further repairs before putting the new outer sill on

 

but what they've done in the floor pan is all new good metal, why would they have to cut into that ?

Edited by stuart bowes, 07 March 2025 - 12:20 PM.

[stuart bowes]

cross section of the floor and sills

 

 

black - already repaired, leave it alone

 

red - inner sill (part of the floor but represented here seperately as not replaced yet) may need more repairs if they left that original (to be inspected)

 

green - step, possibly can leave in place (to be inspected)

 

orange - outer sill, replace

Edited by stuart bowes, 07 March 2025 - 08:43 PM.

[sonscar]

The above is incorrect,this is how a cover sill fits,Steve..
A mini sill and inner sill is probably the easiest car sill to completely replace.

[stuart bowes]

was there a picture with that.. intrigued which bit was wrong ??

 

agree it's not overly complicated

Edited by stuart bowes, 07 March 2025 - 01:02 PM.

[Ichbineinmini]

Stuart I appreciate the art even if others do not, thanks for going to that trouble. 

 

What you have drawn and said is roughly what I was thinking - just venting that they cut off the bloody inner sill from the floor pans. 

 

The red oxide in the photos on the inner sills is where (I think) they have cut a section and welded a new bit of metal in.

 

On that basis the inner patchwork Frankenstein sills could be left alone, cover sills cut off/binned, repairs done and new outer sill fitted. (I have never typed sill so much) The steps have a bit of surface rust but you know what that means.. 

 

 I would ask them for more specific detail about why they can't replace the outer sills.  I suppose they might mean taking off the outer sills will expose issues underneath (quite possibly) and therefore the inner sills will need further repairs before putting the new outer sill on

 

As far as I can understand they were saying they didn't want to grind off the seam sealer, bitumen, red oxide and that they thought their work was done. Only the welders work parter said oh yeah your sills are not great and one is diy and they should really be done, after they were paid. 

[sonscar]

The outer sill attaches to the sloping part of the floor/inner sill to form a triangle.As drawn it represents an oversill type fitment.Steve..

[stuart bowes]

Doh

You're right of course my apologies