42 replies to this topic

[Rubbershorts]

Applied Autos suggested test to the wire that feeds power to the solenoid from the starter relay, and there's power. Am I right now then in thinking that if the solenoid doesn't click, then it's that part that is goosed? The test to check the starter out of the car looks pretty straight forward if further investigation is needed. Daz.

What voltage? Where was the black meter lead connected?

Don't recall exactly, but over 12.6-ish. We had snow last night, can't go check again just yet if exact figure is important. Black meter lead to earth strap on inner wing.

Edited by Rubbershorts, 19 November 2024 - 06:20 AM.

[Rubbershorts]

You can "hotwire" the solenoid by bridging the battery cable connection to the spade connection the relay's connected to.
 
Out of gear, don't run yourself over etc. 

Haha, I've read of this one. So big fat screw driver between the spade I've just tested, and terminal with big wire coming from beneath the car?

[68+86auto]

 

 

Applied Autos suggested test to the wire that feeds power to the solenoid from the starter relay, and there's power. Am I right now then in thinking that if the solenoid doesn't click, then it's that part that is goosed? The test to check the starter out of the car looks pretty straight forward if further investigation is needed. Daz.

What voltage? Where was the black meter lead connected?

Don't recall exactly, but over 12.6-ish. We had snow last night, can't go check again just yet if exact figure is important. Black meter lead to earth strap on inner wing.

 

 

That voltage is ok. that does tell me that the positive wiring is ok. try to crank it and measure the voltage between that earth strap point and the starter body. the reading should be under 0.5v.

[Rubbershorts]

Applied Autos suggested test to the wire that feeds power to the solenoid from the starter relay, and there's power. Am I right now then in thinking that if the solenoid doesn't click, then it's that part that is goosed? The test to check the starter out of the car looks pretty straight forward if further investigation is needed. Daz.

What voltage? Where was the black meter lead connected?

Don't recall exactly, but over 12.6-ish. We had snow last night, can't go check again just yet if exact figure is important. Black meter lead to earth strap on inner wing.

 
That voltage is ok. that does tell me that the positive wiring is ok. try to crank it and measure the voltage between that earth strap point and the starter body. the reading should be under 0.5v.

Hi Auto. Did you mean the body of the starter, as in it's casing? We tried this anyway and it yielded nothing (zero volts), so I've probably misinterpreted what you meant. The starter did work for a couple of tries though, then went back to just the relay clicking.

[68+86auto]

 

 

 

 

Applied Autos suggested test to the wire that feeds power to the solenoid from the starter relay, and there's power. Am I right now then in thinking that if the solenoid doesn't click, then it's that part that is goosed? The test to check the starter out of the car looks pretty straight forward if further investigation is needed. Daz.

What voltage? Where was the black meter lead connected?

Don't recall exactly, but over 12.6-ish. We had snow last night, can't go check again just yet if exact figure is important. Black meter lead to earth strap on inner wing.

 
That voltage is ok. that does tell me that the positive wiring is ok. try to crank it and measure the voltage between that earth strap point and the starter body. the reading should be under 0.5v.

Hi Auto. Did you mean the body of the starter, as in it's casing? We tried this anyway and it yielded nothing (zero volts), so I've probably misinterpreted what you meant. The starter did work for a couple of tries though, then went back to just the relay clicking.

 

 

Yes the casing or flange, somewhere that's the earth (bare metal). You probably did the right thing and there's no voltage drop but if you did it wrong, it would also show 0v. The test was to see if the earth strap is functioning correctly, if there was voltage drop then it would read on the meter. It can be done differently, put the black meter lead there and then the red lead on the battery lead connection on the starter. Then try to crank and measure the voltage WHILE trying to crank. if the voltage is low, it is an issue with the earth.

Edited by 68+86auto, 19 November 2024 - 10:42 PM.

[Rubbershorts]

Continuing on with this.
Tested the starter out of the car and it spins nicely. It seemed reasonable to me that it was the solenoid. The price difference between the solenoid or a new starter with a solenoid was fairly small, so I bought the full motor, just in case.

Fitted to the car today, hoping it would burst into life, but it wasn't to be. There's definitely action at the starter but it sounds like a machine gun, and it doesn't turn the engine. Dammit!

Took it out, inspected, tried again, the same tat,a,tat,at.

Battery measured 12.6 volts.

I've attached pictures of things to see if they throw up any clues.

There are slight differences between the old and new. Firstly, in picture one, it doesn't initially slide into the opening like the old one. It does eventually by doing the bolts up a little at a time. The old just pops in. The new only has one spade, so it's missing the one for a ballasted set up. Does this matter? Probably not. It's wired up with the earth to the peg that then attaches to the starter body, the spade takes the wire from the relay, then everything else in the lower peg.

Anyone any clues as to what the problem is? Daz.

Attached Files

•  IMG_20241126_181042.jpg   38.38K   3 downloads
•  instasize_241126175941.jpg   50.27K   5 downloads
•  instasize_241126180002.jpg   62.88K   5 downloads
•  instasize_241126180045.jpg   35.86K   4 downloads
•  instasize_241126180111.jpg   50.23K   3 downloads

[68+86auto]

"A picture is worth a thousand words"

 

 

 

You've got it connected incorrectly. The stud that goes to the wire on the starter should only have the one wire from the starter to it, nothing else. There is no reason to loosen that nut except for when changing the solenoid.

 

The other stud should have the lead from the battery and also the ones which feed everything else.

 

What is the additional wire connected to? (the one with the exposed conductors)

Edited by 68+86auto, 26 November 2024 - 11:23 PM.

[Rubbershorts]

"A picture is worth a thousand words"
 
 
 
You've got it connected incorrectly. The stud that goes to the wire on the starter should only have the one wire from the starter to it, nothing else. There is no reason to loosen that nut except for when changing the solenoid.
 
The other stud should have the lead from the battery and also the ones which feed everything else.
 
What is the additional wire connected to? (the one with the exposed conductors)

Morning Auto, or evening where you are? Funnily enough I always include pictures, as early on in my TMF adventures your advice to do so to other members always turned something up. I've attached another for clarification. Ringed in black is the stud with the wire to the starter body and the earth from the inner wing. Red is the main battery lead, and everything else powered off that (3 wires in total). Green is the wire from the relay. Even after your comments I'm sure that's how they were originally. What d'ya think?

Attached Files

•  instasize_241127062328.jpg   37.63K   0 downloads

[Rubbershorts]

I think I've just stumbled across what I've done here. As Auto was questioning what the wire was I searched through pictures on my phone for clues. I've seen the earth shouldn't be on the starter at all. I released it form the clutch housing for access whilst cleaning crud up, then mistakenly thought it was for the starter as it was hanging down there a few days later when I was connecting back up. What a d**k head. I've yet to confirm this when I get home, but if I'm right, how embarrassing 

Attached Files

•  Eart strap.jpg   55.59K   0 downloads

[68+86auto]

I think I've just stumbled across what I've done here. As Auto was questioning what the wire was I searched through pictures on my phone for clues. I've seen the earth shouldn't be on the starter at all. I released it form the clutch housing for access whilst cleaning crud up, then mistakenly thought it was for the starter as it was hanging down there a few days later when I was connecting back up. What a d**k head. I've yet to confirm this when I get home, but if I'm right, how embarrassing

Yes, the earth usually goes to a starter mounting bolt. As it was, you would've been shorting out the battery when the solenoid was energised. I don't know if you measured the voltage when trying to crank as it would've been low. I still wouldn't have found the issue without the pictures.

Edited by 68+86auto, 27 November 2024 - 10:01 AM.

[Rubbershorts]

Evening all. Well, I can't believe this, I don't think this car is meant to start. Moved the earth to the correct position and gave the key a turn. BONK, BONK it went. Oh for Christ sake, what now?

Long story short, the new Minispares starter motor is marring the edge of the fly wheel. It acts as a brake so the motor can't turn the wheel. What I previously thought was the motor not slotting into the hole nicely, was actually the edge of the unit butting up against the shoulder of the fly wheel. I'll phone Minispares tomorrow.

Has anyone seen this before? They must sell hundreds of these.

I've just added another side by side picture showing how much extra material there is on the new unit, compared to the bevelled out area on the old.

Attached Files

•  instasize_241127173418.jpg   33.39K   0 downloads
•  instasize_241127173359.jpg   28.26K   1 downloads
•  instasize_241126175941.jpg   50.27K   1 downloads

Edited by Rubbershorts, 27 November 2024 - 06:48 PM.

[68+86auto]

Why don't you fit the old starter at least for now.

[Rubbershorts]

Why don't you fit the old starter at least for now.

The solenoid doesn't work Auto. The motor spins when tested out of the car though. I was 50/50 on wether to get the solenoid or the 'bargain' full unit, and I chose the wrong route it turns out. There's no rush to get it running as there's so much grit and salt being sprayed on our roads at the moment it wouldn't last very long.