42 replies to this topic

[Steam]

A simple way to get tdc is pull n01 plug and, with your thumb over plug hole geel for compression as you turn engine over by hand then use a long straw et al to determine poston at top of trvel. Simples.

[Rubbershorts]

So to summarise:
Piston number 1 at TDC.
Reposition the cam drive so the slot points to 8 and 2 on a clock ( with the biggest part of the offset uppermost, so top left).
Fit the distributor so the rotor arm points at 2.

Wheel car out of garage to get jump leads on

Edited by Rubbershorts, 15 November 2024 - 08:11 AM.

[Lplus]

So to summarise:
Piston number 1 at TDC.
Reposition the cam drive so the slot points to 8 and 2 on a clock ( with the biggest part of the offset uppermost, so top left).
Fit the distributor so the rotor arm points at 2.

Wheel car out of garage to get jump leads on

yes, making sure that the valves on No 1 are shut and on No 4 are closing/opening.  Also ensure that the rotor arm points at the No 1 plug lead terminal on the cap.

[Steam]

to be honest it doesn't actually matter where the drive is as long as the rotor arm points to the no 1 lead at the correct time.

[Ethel]

If No1 is firing, No2 will have just fired & be beginning its exhaust stroke

If no 4 is firing, No2 will be next & just ending induction (inlet) to start on compression

 

- saves taking the rocker cover off if you can see which valve is being pushed by its rocker cylinder 2.

[Ethel]

to be honest it doesn't actually matter where the drive is as long as the rotor arm points to the no 1 lead at the correct time.

 

Yes, though it's a moveable feast if the dizzy body & shaft have both been let free. In this case it's getting the dizzy shaft correctly set to the cam shaft, then the body set to the rotor. You'll then be in the right ball park to statically set the ignition timing.

[Rubbershorts]

Hi everyone, I followed all the tips/advice and managed to get it going. Thanks all. It does seem though I had two problems at the same time. What I thought was a flat battery was maybe a solenoid problem. Fully charged the battery over night, and to be honest I don't think it needed it. When it came to trying to start, after the amendments, nothing. Just the faint click of the relay in the bulkhead. Trying a new relay yielded nothing. Did some reading and settled on dismantling all the connections on the solenoid, spraying with electrical cleaner and scrubbing, the reassembled. It fired up like a good 'un. Brilliant! Left it running a while to see if anything odd happened. Turned it off and tried to start almost immediately, but no chance. Just the click of the relay. Is that just a conked solenoid? If so, how much of it is replaced. Is it just the end, or the whole thing including the cylinder part?
I'll just add, I did try to take the full solenoid out of the car by undoing the two bolts and sliding it to the right. The coil thing in there was snagged and didn't have time to check it out to see if it just needs a yank, so bolted it back up and commenced with the cleaning. Did the cleaning or the disturbance of the cylinder allow it to start once?

Edited by Rubbershorts, 16 November 2024 - 05:00 PM.

[68+86auto]

Measure the voltage at various points when trying to crank until you find the spot where it's lowest. Don't just do the high current wiring, the wire from the ignition switch needs to be measured too. Also feel all the connections to see if they are hot.

[Rubbershorts]

Measure the voltage at various points when trying to crank until you find the spot where it's lowest. Don't just do the high current wiring, the wire from the ignition switch needs to be measured too. Also feel all the connections to see if they are hot.

Hi Auto. Electrics always worry me. What two points would I put the red and black contacts of the multimeter on, to determine whether the relay is sending the required information to the solenoid? I have noticed in the Haines that one of the spade connectors on my solenoid doesn't have anything going to it, is this correct. The picture is whilst I was removing wires for cleaning but there definitely wasn't anything attached to the spade I've ringed. What is the ringed one for?

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Edited by Rubbershorts, 18 November 2024 - 06:45 AM.

[68+86auto]

Measure the voltage at various points when trying to crank until you find the spot where it's lowest. Don't just do the high current wiring, the wire from the ignition switch needs to be measured too. Also feel all the connections to see if they are hot.

Hi Auto. Electrics always worry me. What two points would I put the red and black contacts of the multimeter on, to determine whether the relay is sending the required information to the solenoid? I have noticed in the Haines that one of the spade connectors on my solenoid doesn't have anything going to it, is this correct. The picture is whilst I was removing wires for cleaning but there definitely wasn't anything attached to the spade I've ringed. What is the ringed one for?

The big spade is the one which receives power from the relay. If you want to test the relay, put the meter red lead on the big spade terminal and the black lead on something connected to earth. If there's a poor earth connection it could also show up in this test.

The circled one is for the ballasted ignition system. If the ballasted system is fitted, it should be connected to the coil positive. This bypasses the resistor when cranking to provide higher voltage and therefore better starting.

Edited by 68+86auto, 18 November 2024 - 09:17 AM.

[Rubbershorts]

Brilliant, thanks Auto, I'll try that when I can next. Not running a ballast system ,so all good there.

[Ethel]

The solenoid is actually very simple. The heads of those copper coloured threaded studs are the contacts on the inside. When it's energised, courtesy of the ignition relay, the coil pulls the plunger towards them (electro magnetism). At the same time it pushes the pinion to engage with the ring gear, using what is effectively a seesaw. The pinion should engage before the plunger reaches the contacts, hence "pre-engaged". Most likely the contacts have eroded, but it could be the mechanical bits on the other end preventing the plunger from going all the way.

 

The trouble is, when they struggle to contact the motor the contacts get more sparky doing it & the erosion accelerates.

 

 

 

 

....if the "coil thing" was the plunger, you wouldn't be able to remove it in situ because it has a "window" in the end that the "seesaw" pokes through so the solenoid (return spring) can pull the pinion out of engagement with the starter ring too .

 

There's some cleverness involved, not too useful but interesting (to me anyway)...

 

When the engine starts it begins to turn the starter motor, instead of the other way round, the motor becomes a generator that pushes as many volts at the solenoid as the battery is trying to push in the opposite direction. No current flows through the solenoid's coil so the magnetic field collapses & the spring opens the contacts & begins to pull the pinion out of engagement. That's why you get a horrible clatter if you don't release the ignition key when it starts.

[Rubbershorts]

Applied Autos suggested test to the wire that feeds power to the solenoid from the starter relay, and there's power. Am I right now then in thinking that if the solenoid doesn't click, then it's that part that is goosed? The test to check the starter out of the car looks pretty straight forward if further investigation is needed. Daz.

[Ethel]

You can "hotwire" the solenoid by bridging the battery cable connection to the spade connection the relay's connected to.

 

Out of gear, don't run yourself over etc. 

[68+86auto]

Applied Autos suggested test to the wire that feeds power to the solenoid from the starter relay, and there's power. Am I right now then in thinking that if the solenoid doesn't click, then it's that part that is goosed? The test to check the starter out of the car looks pretty straight forward if further investigation is needed. Daz.

 

What voltage? Where was the black meter lead connected?