41 replies to this topic

[mab01uk]

Is an electric car REALLY cheaper than a petrol car?
What Car? take the new electric MINI Cooper and the new petrol MINI Cooper on a road trip to find out

 

Road trip = London - Oxford - Birmingham - London (250 miles)
Official Range of the new Electric MINI Cooper = 249 miles

 

[84 City E]

Im totally confused by new cars, the fleet in our household run from 1981 to 2004 and i really cant see the need for anything different. The historic class ones do us for everything really.

 

Not against anyone who has moderns but my only question is why?

[sonscar]

People crave new tech.I know this because all advertising tells me this.Steve..

[jonlad]

I think it started out as a status symbol, "look at me I must be really successful as I have a new car"  

 

but now they give finance to anyone - it doesnt work!

Edited by jonlad, 25 September 2024 - 08:22 AM.

[MiniMadRacer]

The way electric cars are going, I can see ownership of a car becoming a thing of the past. People will lease them, and then not be liable for the repair bills that come with ownership, and I am sure "home" maintenance on electric cars is a long distant dream, so we would be having to pay "stealer ship" prices for servciing etc, so I really cannot see a reason to "own" an electric car

[sonscar]

Look carefully at leasing agreements,some hit with huge penalties for mileage,overrunning services,tyre wear,damage,cleaning etc etc.Some may allow you to rally your leased(rented) car to the moon but check first.I did and then bought a 10year old Fiat 500,yeah I was probably deluded when I did this .Steve..

[Bobbins]

... I can see ownership of a car becoming a thing of the past. People will lease them,...

 

That doesn't only apply to EVs, it's the way new car purchases have gone across all types.

 

 

My daily driver EV has now done 96,000 miles and in that time it's not had a service and it's still on it's original pads and discs (I've had it from new). I've calculated the differential costs compared to my previous 45+mpg daily and being conservative I recon I've saved £8,000 on fuel and £2,000 on servicing. That saving is running costs so applies whether you buy new or used, it's separate to depreciation and certainly isn't a small sum.

[84 City E]

 

... I can see ownership of a car becoming a thing of the past. People will lease them,...

 

That doesn't only apply to EVs, it's the way new car purchases have gone across all types.

 

 

My daily driver EV has now done 96,000 miles and in that time it's not had a service and it's still on it's original pads and discs (I've had it from new). I've calculated the differential costs compared to my previous 45+mpg daily and being conservative I recon I've saved £8,000 on fuel and £2,000 on servicing. That saving is running costs so applies whether you buy new or used, it's separate to depreciation and certainly isn't a small sum.

 

I think it depends if you have running costs. Im an ex mechanic for my sins and do all the work on all my and my wifes cars. insurance isnt too bad as we are both middle aged and there isnt even tax or mot on the historic ones (one of which is the mini) I think all in we probably spend about 1500-2000 a year running 4 cars between us including tax, insurance, parts etc. They are all (touch wood) reliable and do what we need. I take the extra money rather than company car option at work

 

New cars, lease or purchase, is a mugs game if im honest

Edited by 84 City E, 27 September 2024 - 11:03 AM.

[MiniMadRacer]

 

 

... I can see ownership of a car becoming a thing of the past. People will lease them,...

 

That doesn't only apply to EVs, it's the way new car purchases have gone across all types.

 

 

My daily driver EV has now done 96,000 miles and in that time it's not had a service and it's still on it's original pads and discs (I've had it from new). I've calculated the differential costs compared to my previous 45+mpg daily and being conservative I recon I've saved £8,000 on fuel and £2,000 on servicing. That saving is running costs so applies whether you buy new or used, it's separate to depreciation and certainly isn't a small sum.

 

I think it depends if you have running costs. Im an ex mechanic for my sins and do all the work on all my and my wifes cars. insurance isnt too bad as we are both middle aged and there isnt even tax or mot on the historic ones (one of which is the mini) I think all in we probably spend about 1500-2000 a year running 4 cars between us including tax, insurance, parts etc. They are all (touch wood) reliable and do what we need. I take the extra money rather than company car option at work

 

New cars, lease or purchase, is a mugs game if im honest

 

I totally agree with you, but if you live in the increasing amount of areas that require ULEZ / Emission reduced cars, electric cars will be the immediate future for many whether you like it or not, and DIY'ing an electric car is probably a long long way off. I think the future will be hydrogen cars, not battery ones, but too much money has already been invested in pretty much useless battery technology by large corporations, to throw it all away just yet. The cost of recyling those batteries alone is astronomical. I am probably too old now, and will stick to old petrol engine technology to see my driving days out

[84 City E]

 

 

 

... I can see ownership of a car becoming a thing of the past. People will lease them,...

 

That doesn't only apply to EVs, it's the way new car purchases have gone across all types.

 

 

My daily driver EV has now done 96,000 miles and in that time it's not had a service and it's still on it's original pads and discs (I've had it from new). I've calculated the differential costs compared to my previous 45+mpg daily and being conservative I recon I've saved £8,000 on fuel and £2,000 on servicing. That saving is running costs so applies whether you buy new or used, it's separate to depreciation and certainly isn't a small sum.

 

I think it depends if you have running costs. Im an ex mechanic for my sins and do all the work on all my and my wifes cars. insurance isnt too bad as we are both middle aged and there isnt even tax or mot on the historic ones (one of which is the mini) I think all in we probably spend about 1500-2000 a year running 4 cars between us including tax, insurance, parts etc. They are all (touch wood) reliable and do what we need. I take the extra money rather than company car option at work

 

New cars, lease or purchase, is a mugs game if im honest

 

I totally agree with you, but if you live in the increasing amount of areas that require ULEZ / Emission reduced cars, electric cars will be the immediate future for many whether you like it or not, and DIY'ing an electric car is probably a long long way off. I think the future will be hydrogen cars, not battery ones, but too much money has already been invested in pretty much useless battery technology by large corporations, to throw it all away just yet. The cost of recyling those batteries alone is astronomical. I am probably too old now, and will stick to old petrol engine technology to see my driving days out

 

Totally agree with you about hydrogen probably being the future, in fact even e-fuel systhetic petrol/diesel may yet be the future. Im far from convinced that batteries are the way 

[MiniMadRacer]

 

 

 

 

... I can see ownership of a car becoming a thing of the past. People will lease them,...

 

That doesn't only apply to EVs, it's the way new car purchases have gone across all types.

 

 

My daily driver EV has now done 96,000 miles and in that time it's not had a service and it's still on it's original pads and discs (I've had it from new). I've calculated the differential costs compared to my previous 45+mpg daily and being conservative I recon I've saved £8,000 on fuel and £2,000 on servicing. That saving is running costs so applies whether you buy new or used, it's separate to depreciation and certainly isn't a small sum.

 

I think it depends if you have running costs. Im an ex mechanic for my sins and do all the work on all my and my wifes cars. insurance isnt too bad as we are both middle aged and there isnt even tax or mot on the historic ones (one of which is the mini) I think all in we probably spend about 1500-2000 a year running 4 cars between us including tax, insurance, parts etc. They are all (touch wood) reliable and do what we need. I take the extra money rather than company car option at work

 

New cars, lease or purchase, is a mugs game if im honest

 

I totally agree with you, but if you live in the increasing amount of areas that require ULEZ / Emission reduced cars, electric cars will be the immediate future for many whether you like it or not, and DIY'ing an electric car is probably a long long way off. I think the future will be hydrogen cars, not battery ones, but too much money has already been invested in pretty much useless battery technology by large corporations, to throw it all away just yet. The cost of recyling those batteries alone is astronomical. I am probably too old now, and will stick to old petrol engine technology to see my driving days out

 

Totally agree with you about hydrogen probably being the future, in fact even e-fuel systhetic petrol/diesel may yet be the future. Im far from convinced that batteries are the way 

 

It would be interesting trying to see a Boeing 747 take off on batteries. The weight alone would rule it out even before we get into the range and power needed of the batteries   

[Bobbins]

... I can see ownership of a car becoming a thing of the past. People will lease them,...

That doesn't only apply to EVs, it's the way new car purchases have gone across all types.


My daily driver EV has now done 96,000 miles and in that time it's not had a service and it's still on it's original pads and discs (I've had it from new). I've calculated the differential costs compared to my previous 45+mpg daily and being conservative I recon I've saved £8,000 on fuel and £2,000 on servicing. That saving is running costs so applies whether you buy new or used, it's separate to depreciation and certainly isn't a small sum.

I think it depends if you have running costs. Im an ex mechanic for my sins and do all the work on all my and my wifes cars. insurance isnt too bad as we are both middle aged and there isnt even tax or mot on the historic ones (one of which is the mini) I think all in we probably spend about 1500-2000 a year running 4 cars between us including tax, insurance, parts etc. They are all (touch wood) reliable and do what we need. I take the extra money rather than company car option at work

New cars, lease or purchase, is a mugs game if im honest

I totally agree with you, but if you live in the increasing amount of areas that require ULEZ / Emission reduced cars, electric cars will be the immediate future for many whether you like it or not, and DIY'ing an electric car is probably a long long way off. I think the future will be hydrogen cars, not battery ones, but too much money has already been invested in pretty much useless battery technology by large corporations, to throw it all away just yet. The cost of recyling those batteries alone is astronomical. I am probably too old now, and will stick to old petrol engine technology to see my driving days out

Totally agree with you about hydrogen probably being the future, in fact even e-fuel systhetic petrol/diesel may yet be the future. Im far from convinced that batteries are the way

It would be interesting trying to see a Boeing 747 take off on batteries. The weight alone would rule it out even before we get into the range and power needed of the batteries

We need to be realistic and compare apples to apples, not pears. A home serviced classic will be cheaper to run than a new EV or ICE vehicle, but for the mileage I do it would not be realistic. In fact a bicycle would blow away the costs of running a classic and in fact be even more reliable but even less realistic! A battery powered 747 is a non starter, but neither is a jet engines car for daily use.

We’re in an era of change and for many people it will be embraced, wisely or not, for others it’s a terrifying prospect. We need to progress however with what’s available and leave the manufacturers to find their way within the constraints of whatever direction governments choose to take. As car enthusiasts we might not like the idea of EVs but neither do old school rail enthusiasts wax lyrical over electric trains, they’re here though and here to stay.

Edited by Bobbins, 28 September 2024 - 10:16 AM.

[E23TFD]

I’m with Bobbins here, I went electric Jan this year and I travel all over the country. I have a relatively small battery as well and honestly range anxiety is a media driven thing.

The synthetic fuel thing is a none starter for mass transportation and I agree hydrogen would be great solution. However people then equally need to accept we need a load of turbines off the west coast of Ireland to produce all that hydrogen at a cheap rate.

Old first gen Leafs with no battery management haven’t helped the reputation of EVs but a lot was learned and hence we have cooled and heated packs.

It’s a company car for me so depreciation isn’t a thing for me but the BIK saving alone is huge (won’t last forever) however from a fuel stand point it saves us £100+ a month.

The VRS we have has done less than 500miles since Jan as we always take the EV, I encourage anyone to just try one and not rely on the media negative hype. You don’t have to get one but as another means of propulsion for a car you have to try. Equally the comment “not fun etc” mine is rear wheel drive 200bhp and 300Nm so you can get the back to step out if you want.

I would love to convert the mini to electric to just be a useable easy car to live with but cost is somewhat eye opening!

[sonscar]

We are paying wind companies millions a week not to generate.No axe grinding here,just saying.Steve..

[E23TFD]

Absolutely correct Steve, largely because NIMBYs don’t want the disruption of cabling or pylons to shift the energy.

I love the argument we can’t generate enough from green tech but one of the main issues for curtailment is the grid can’t cope with what’s generated. Now you create hydrogen plants where the wind is, as you also need the water so ideal situation and you generate hydrogen.

I love our national “no” sentiment instead of pushing on, good job the Victorians got on with it or we would still be in our little mud huts like other third worlds.

Yes, wind farm operators are sometimes paid to stop generating electricity when the grid can't handle the amount of power they produce. This is called curtailment, and it's paid for by the UK government.

Here are some reasons why curtailment happens:

Transmission network: The transmission network isn't designed to handle the large amount of energy that flows between Scotland and England.

Intermittency: Wind isn't blowing every day.

Grid overload: When it's very windy, the grid can't handle the extra power generated without risking damage.

The cost of curtailment is passed on to consumers. In 2020, the UK government paid £299 million for curtailment, and £507 million in 2021. The National Grid Electricity System Operator (ESO) forecasts that these costs could rise to as much as £2.5 billion per year by the middle of this decade.