41 replies to this topic

[Shooter63]

For interest these are the yearly production figures for the Mini 1959 - 2000 from AROnline.
 
Ian Nicholls unravels the production data to try and come up with a definitive number of Minis built.
He finds more questions than answers – but it looks like more than six million of all types were made:-
https://www.aronline...roduction-many/

Excellent piece, but that puts my thoughts on the strike idea out the window, the trouble is it opened a new can of worms up for me, my MK1 is an import, I thought it was a Portuguese CKD but apparently these wasn't a factory in Portugal, more investigation required me thinks.

Shooter

 
With regard to Portuguese Minis I found the extract below taken from this ad for a 1965 Morris Mini Cooper S 1275cc.
"The car was originally assembled in Portugal at the Setubal factory which was partially owned by British Leyland. This enabled British Leyland to sell cars in Portugal as they were deemed nationally produced. This was more for show than anything else though, as the cars left the UK as a virtually assembled kit. All the workers at the Setubal factory in fact did were to paint and then assemble the cars. Other than some extra colours being available they were indistinguishable from the UK assembled cars and exactly the same specification."
https://www.paddock4...per-s-mk1-1965/
 
Also there was this thread on the Mk1 Forum about them a while back:-
Mini Assembly in Setúbal / Portugal

Thanks for that much appreciated, it gives me somewhere to start, although the car is different in certain areas to a uk built car, I won't go into detail here as its throwing the thread miles off course.

Shooter

[DeadSquare]

 

 

Here is the 2023 graph of absolute numbers:

Thank You for the update! Might You tell us the absolute numbers for licenced and SORN Minis for 2023 as I'm bad at adding bars together? ;)

 

Year Licensed SORN
1959 36 16
1960 63 44
1961 70 41
1962 104 82
1963 200 121
1964 213 129
1965 210 105
1966 225 97
1967 236 121
1968 259 143
1969 200 118
1970 142 109
1971 177 139
1972 222 219
1973 69 50
1974 123 113
1975 390 459
1976 75 77
1977 13 21
1978 141 246
1979 1018 1597
1980 927 1595
1981 487 1009
1982 474 1161
1983 242 1572
1984 275 1596
1985 319 1910
1986 323 1925
1987 362 2143
1988 444 2603
1989 831 3901
1990 737 3298
1991 712 3077
1992 546 2658
1993 637 2492
1994 671 2134
1995 576 1769
1996 558 1494
1997 477 1163
1998 657 1292
1999 555 999
2000 839 1459
2001 263 443
2002 5 8
2003 2 3
2004 1 0
2005 0 1
2006 1 0
2017 1 0

 

Ugh !  Statistics

 

To paraphrase Mark Twain, there are Lies, Statistics and Danold Trump.

[madalicesdad]

Regarding the statement about MOT pings being due to delays in updating the records, I have an app called Vehicle Smart and all the family cars are in there. When I take one for an MOT, it's the app that pings to say it's passed (or failed) long before the garage phone to say it's ready. There is no delay in updating the MOT records.
Road tax is different though. My daughter got a warning note on the screen from the council 4 days after the tax was paid. I checked and the DVLA database said it was untaxed even though we renewed online!

[Shooter63]

Cutting up classic mini shell, good bulk head, 2 roofs for cuts. V5 also available for 1985 car.

I just lifted the above from FB, hence the high percentage of later cars on SORN

Shooter

[mab01uk]

If I was a younger Mini enthusiast now I would always retain the V5 of any Mini I broke up and keep it in a drawer on SORN for a possible future project. With even brand new Mk1 bodyshells now available from British Motor Heritage, as well as later Mk4, Mk5, Clubman (plus Mk2 shells said to be on the way soon)....you never know in the future if you might have the time, money and desire to build a Mini from scratch, perhaps even as a retirement project. A live V5 document of a Mini you once owned will make any project a lot easier to get a classic Mini back on the road and as a bonus will have a nostalgic connection for the owner to the registration number of a Mini from their early days of driving.

[Shooter63]

If I was a younger Mini enthusiast now I would always retain the V5 of any Mini I broke up and keep it in a drawer on SORN for a possible future project. With even brand new Mk1 bodyshells now available from British Motor Heritage, as well as later Mk4, Mk5, Clubman (plus Mk2 shells said to be on the way soon)....you never know in the future if you might have the time, money and desire to build a Mini from scratch, perhaps even as a retirement project. A live V5 document of a Mini you once owned will make any project a lot easier to get a classic Mini back on the road and as a bonus will have a nostalgic connection for the owner to the registration number of a Mini from their early days of driving.

Totally agree, especially if the V5 you have is for a 1071S :), time will be the problem as I have already decided that a Terrapin is 1st retirement project.

Shooter

[84 City E]

If I was a younger Mini enthusiast now I would always retain the V5 of any Mini I broke up and keep it in a drawer on SORN for a possible future project. With even brand new Mk1 bodyshells now available from British Motor Heritage, as well as later Mk4, Mk5, Clubman (plus Mk2 shells said to be on the way soon)....you never know in the future if you might have the time, money and desire to build a Mini from scratch, perhaps even as a retirement project. A live V5 document of a Mini you once owned will make any project a lot easier to get a classic Mini back on the road and as a bonus will have a nostalgic connection for the owner to the registration number of a Mini from their early days of driving.

 

You have to be a bit careful posting things like this in a fairly public forum i would have thought. I mean i tend to agree with what you are saying, but this could be seen as a extremely iffy by the people in Swansea, couldnt it?

[alpder]

 

If I was a younger Mini enthusiast now I would always retain the V5 of any Mini I broke up and keep it in a drawer on SORN for a possible future project. With even brand new Mk1 bodyshells now available from British Motor Heritage, as well as later Mk4, Mk5, Clubman (plus Mk2 shells said to be on the way soon)....you never know in the future if you might have the time, money and desire to build a Mini from scratch, perhaps even as a retirement project. A live V5 document of a Mini you once owned will make any project a lot easier to get a classic Mini back on the road and as a bonus will have a nostalgic connection for the owner to the registration number of a Mini from their early days of driving.

 

You have to be a bit careful posting things like this in a fairly public forum i would have thought. I mean i tend to agree with what you are saying, but this could be seen as a extremely iffy by the people in Swansea, couldnt it?

 

It is the kind of thing which might cause DVLA to petition HMG to tighten the rules to such an extent that it then becomes impossible to resurrect genuine off-the-register cars. And there are genuine unregistered Minis still out there... I have one in my shed which has been off the road since '74, but the last owner foolishly stripped it down to its parts without first re-registering it. Which means I have to find enough round tuits to put all the boxed-up bits onto the body so that it's a complete car so it can be re-registered. (And then another bucket-full of round tuits to take it all apart again to do a proper rebuild of it.) So, yeah, I don't object but... please... a little more discretion, eh?

 

And if that's not quite enough on its own to persuade people to keep their... interesting... activities under their hats: there's also the small matter of a £1000 fine for failing to declare a car scrapped.

[mab01uk]

You can rebuild a Mini quite legally with a new BMH bodyshell.....as for the component parts of a Mini as long as you used some or all the original parts if stored...or as with most restorations 'period correct' secondhand or reproduction parts. However always wondered how would the DVLA identify 2 other major components from the original Mini, say a rear subframe, steering rack or a rear radius arm for example as being a part of the original car when it left the factory......carbon dating maybe?

 

A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

• the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
• a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)

You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.

For cars or light vans:

• suspension (front and back)
• steering assembly
• axles (both)
• transmission
• engine

Rebuilt vehicles rules:-

https://www.gov.uk/v...ebuilt-vehicles

Edited by mab01uk, 25 September 2024 - 10:22 AM.

[84 City E]

You can rebuild a Mini quite legally with a new BMH bodyshell.....as for the component parts of a Mini as long as you used some or all the original parts if stored...or as with most restorations 'period correct' secondhand or reproduction parts. However always wondered how would the DVLA identify 2 other major components from the original Mini, say a rear subframe, steering rack or a rear radius arm for example as being a part of the original car when it left the factory......carbon dating maybe?

 

A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

• the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
• a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)

You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.

For cars or light vans:

• suspension (front and back)
• steering assembly
• axles (both)
• transmission
• engine

Rebuilt vehicles rules:-

https://www.gov.uk/v...ebuilt-vehicles

I know exactly what you are saying here, and thats all fine, but its not what the original post said about having 'spare' V5's is it?

[stuart bowes]

it's still the same car honest guv

 

 

I feel like there is a bit of a difference between keeping an old V5 for a particular year, then buying a heritage shell (or obtaining one of the right year) and building an honest replacement to go with it, and using an old V5 to simply make your car 20 years older for tax reasons, or as a 'ringer' to sell it at a higher value

 

it's all about exactly what you do with it and your intentions for doing so as far as I'm concerned

 

if you're doing it to mug someone off then that's shameful behavior...  if you're doing it for tax reasons, I get it but you shouldn't really. 

Edited by stuart bowes, 25 September 2024 - 02:07 PM.

[mab01uk]

Now and in future years building or restoring a Mini from scratch using a new BMH Mk1/2/3/4/5 or Clubman bodyshell using period used and new parts with an old V5 would be the only logical way to go, unless you are happy to end up with a Q plate registration and the hassle getting modern emission and safety approvals and the de-valuation that a Q plate causes of the vehicle....which few classic car or Mini enthusiasts are going to want to do but the choice of course is yours if you think the not always logical DVLA rules should apply to the letter in your own particular case.

 

The 'Triggers broom' debate could also include many of the more recent basket case restorations carried out where virtually all the panels, floor, roof, bulkheads, etc are replaced in some cases with hardly any of the original shell left intact. Back in the 1980's when early Mini restorations became more common it was standard practice to replace a rusty Cooper S bodyshell with the shell from a rust free donor low mileage 'little old lady' Mk1 or Mk2 Mini automatic, few early panels were available and the end value of the car did not justify the costs....most know if the no Triggers broom allowed rule was enforced strictly today the number of early Cooper S's on sale and seen at shows today would be vastly reduced for example.....not to mention the BMC Works Rally Minis we often admire, many of which have had several bodyshells, several swapped registrations by BMC/BL and some were even badged as Austins on one rally and Morris on the next...

 

As said by Stuart it's all about exactly what you do with it and your honest intentions as a Mini enthusiast for doing it which count, hopefully in most cases it would be simply to create a near replica of a Mini which you once owned or have retained some key components from.

Edited by mab01uk, 25 September 2024 - 02:53 PM.