23 replies to this topic

[BobbyMax]

Hi all, Goldseal engines have probably been talked about quite a lot but I have a few things i'm not sure about.

So I'm nearing the end of the restoration of my Clubby 1275gt. Going by the numbers on the engine plate It came with what i'm assuming is a gold seal engine although a previous owner had painted it a lovely shade of blue😖!

Anyway are the engine plate numbers the only way to recognise a goldseal engine as it's not painted gold anymore as you can see by attached photop

Also is a mini with goldseal engines more desirable than one with its original engines still in it?

Cheers Bobby.
 20240915_120941.jpg   57.13K   10 downloads

[BobbyMax]

Sorry im not sure why this ended up in the (Injection Mini Specific - SPi/MPi) section.If some kind person could move it to the problems questions and technical section that would be greatly appreciated as i cant work out how to do it

Edited by Ethel, 15 September 2024 - 12:32 PM.
moved up a level

[Ethel]

I remember they used to come absolutely lathered in gold paint. It'd be a task to get rid of all of it.

[absx2]

Back in the day when a unit ( engine or gearbox ) failed during the warrantee period it was often replaced by a factory Goldseal unit but in reality these units just had the necessary repairs carried out on them having been returned under warrantee with a generous coating of gold paint ready to be fitted to next car.

 

A friend went through three Goldseal replacements on his 1275GT ! 

[Gaz66]

What exactly is a gold seal engine? Factory built?

[Ethel]

Can't remember the exact specs, but they were factory refurbs that came with a warranty. There was also Silver Seal that came with a lesser warranty and less refurbing. The Silvers tended to be short motors (block & crank assembly) sold to owners for minimum cost repairs. Golds were usually complete engines, that were used for under warranty repairs too.

 

They were regarded as better than new by many as they'd run some heat cycles and more attention should have been paid to the machining & assembly than the first time round on the production line. The bores could be linered, gaining better wear resistance, but I couldn't say if that was routine.

[Ethel]

Lifted from here

 

Gold and Silver Seal engines differ in two ways. Gold Seal engines are (were) applicable to vehicles up to five years old and contain a higher percentage of new parts. Silver Seal engines apply to vehicles over five years old and the lower percentage of new parts in these engines reflects the much greater availability of fairly good used parts for these slightly older engines. The sole exception to the 'five year old' rule is the MGB for which Gold Seal units were available rather than Silver Seal.

The same standards of re-manufacture apply to both types of engine except that the Silver Seal specification does not include the water pump, thermostat and thermostat housing and sparking plugs, but does include the oil pump and filter and crankshaft pulley. The Gold Seal specification includes all of these items and both types of engine will have been very thoroughly over-hauled. This work consists of stripping and thoroughly cleaning all internal parts, followed by close examination for wear, hairline cracks etc. Cylinder heads are checked and tested for compression. Crankshafts and camshafts are measured, re-profiled or reground to the same tolerances as a new engine and balanced. The maximum amount of metal which will be removed is 0.020", and any part which cannot be reconditioned within this limit will be discarded and replaced, often by a brand new component. After assembly every engine is set up, balanced, and "run for thirty minutes under power" (according to Unipart) during which time it is subject to inspection and testing for oil pressure, power output, smoothness of running and noise levels.

Referring to the greater availability of used parts for slightly older engines and the lower percentage of new parts used in Silver Seal engines. This is not to say that Silver Seal engines are in any sense a second class product. The same standards apply to both types of engine but in achieving those standards several engines may be stripped to provide parts which are capable of being reconditioned for a Silver Seal engines whereas fewer engines are available from vehicles up to five years old. Unipart aims to offer the same high standard in Silver Seal replacement engines and gearboxes but to do so at a lower cost to the customer. Gold Seal engines come with a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty, with Silver Seal the limits are 12 months or 12,000 miles. Both warranties state that if replacement or repair of the unit becomes necessary due to a manufacturing or material defect the unit will be replaced free of charge and the "unexpected" (unused or not expired) part of the original warranty will then apply.

[DeadSquare]

What exactly is a gold seal engine? Factory built?

A "Gold Seal Engine" was a factory exchange engine, rebuilt within manufacturer's tolerances.

 

Depending on the workload, quite a lot was out sourced.

 

The crank would be reground, the block rebored, new cam and followers, new valves gear and rockers and all new ancillaries.

 

They didn't all have the same part number.  If you went to somewhere like "Colemore" in B'ham and ordered an exchange with the appropriate part number, a lot of the in-house engines had a standard crank taken from the production line.

 

A lot of  out sourced cylinder heads came with valve seat insert whereas in-house ones came with larger MG valves, but they got hoovered up by the tuning firms.

 

A 'short engine'  was usually standard dimensions.

 

The mechanics used to make sure that anything serviceable was removed from the engine and swapped with duff parts, before it was collected from the local agent.

[BobbyMax]

I remember they used to come absolutely lathered in gold paint. It'd be a task to get rid of all of it.

[BobbyMax]

This one was lathered in gold then blue🤮

[Ethel]

That's nowt, some of 'em looked like Cadbury had subcontracted & used their chocolate dipper: Obviously painted after assembly.

[BobbyMax]

But do you think a restored car is more desirable with a gold seal engine or the cars original engine?

[Quinlan minor]

But do you think a restored car is more desirable with a gold seal engine or the cars original engine?

The people who get excited about engine/chassis numbers will always want it to be "original" and will pay a premium for that.

[gazza82]

Two stamped in letters usually denote rebore and crank regrind sizes. The goldseal in my A35 has AF .. which I think was 20 thou rebore and I think 60thou grind on crank.

It was running fine back in the 70s but sadly 46 years sitting in a garage means it is seized as we didn't drain it fully

I filled the bores with diesel in 2019 and cylinder 3 still has some sitting in it!!!

[nicklouse]

A couple of things. Your fan is on backwards.

 

your engine number refers to the following.

 

New and Gold Seal units for engine numbers prefixed 12H706, 12H707 & 12H831 for Clubman 1275GT