13 replies to this topic

[JonnyAlpha]

Hi, well I have a problem with water in my oil. First advice was that it could be condensation in the rocker cover from not being run properly, under the rocker cover was milky white froth, but I drained off a small amount from the sump and that’s gone grey also.

So it’s either a damaged (newly fitted) head gasket or leaking through the newly fitted cylinder head studs.

History - this is a newly built engine that has done about 300 miles. When I was about to change the oil I noticed that the cylinder head stud nearest the thermostat at the front was loose. On further inspection it had snapped just below the face of the block.
I then removed the head cleaned everything up and swapped out the brand new MiniSpares flanged nut and stud set for ARP.
When I fitted the ARP studs, I noticed that the lower threads on the studs was slightly longer than the MiniSpares and original studs. I took advice and using a correct size Tap, I tapped out the stud holes a little more to ensure the threads where beneath the block face. I did not drill the holes as there seemed to be enough depth to simply turn the tap down a little more.

I fitted a new BK450 head gasket and bolted everything down. Tourqued to 45lb/ft and after filling with oil and checking oil pressure, I ran the engine until warm without coolant. I left it overnight and filled with water, torqued again (did not loosen the nuts though). At this time I also swapped out the carb from an SU HIF44 for a Weber DCOE 45, which I have had trouble getting to run properly (wrong idle jets).

Once I got the engine running properly is when I noticed the oil problem.

So, I need to remove the head and check / swap the head gasket. Remove the head studs and apply some thread sealer. (Permatex).
Should I run the engine first with some engine flush in the oil and drain the oil, or do this after the steps above to fix the leaks?
I’ll post up some pictures later.

Anyone else had this issue?

[nicklouse]

Thinking about leaks being due to the studs is a red herring.the gasket seals them off.

 

but have all the stud holes been countersunk? As pulled threads can cause issues.

 

straight edge and a feeler gauge to check any non flatness is in spec.

[Steve220]

Was the block decked?

[slidehammer]

Why did you run it without coolant in, and how do you know it was warm and not too hot? The temp gauge would read properly without coolant.

I think the head is going to have to come off, so you will see if the head gasket has failed. 

Silly question but the studs aren't too long and not pulling the head down properly before they run out of thread?

[Steve220]

Why did you run it without coolant in, and how do you know it was warm and not too hot? The temp gauge would read properly without coolant.

I think the head is going to have to come off, so you will see if the head gasket has failed. 

Silly question but the studs aren't too long and not pulling the head down properly before they run out of thread?

 

That's the running in recommendation for the headgasket by Payen. It melts the laquer on the BK450 to help seal, however coolant molecules are so small, they can seep through the small gaps. Easier to run without coolant or water for 60 seconds; its enough to melt it prior to filling with coolant mix.

[bpirie1000]

Is the engine actually running properly?

Have you done compression check on the bores?

Think I may suggest you get yers3lf some engineers blue and get the head all checked for hairline cracks that may only should when the car is hot....

Joys of minis....

Edited by bpirie1000, 29 November 2023 - 02:39 PM.

[Mini Manannán]

I changed from a Swiftune rocker cover cap to red Metro style and all the top-end mushroom soup disappeared

[nicklouse]

I changed from a Swiftune rocker cover cap to red Metro style and all the top-end mushroom soup disappeared

Having see the pictures I would say it is beyond mayo. This first picture could well have been but further ones no way it was just water vapour.

[68+86auto]

Did you drain the cooling system entirely before removing the head?

[slidehammer]

 

Why did you run it without coolant in, and how do you know it was warm and not too hot? The temp gauge would read properly without coolant.

I think the head is going to have to come off, so you will see if the head gasket has failed. 

Silly question but the studs aren't too long and not pulling the head down properly before they run out of thread?

 

That's the running in recommendation for the headgasket by Payen. It melts the laquer on the BK450 to help seal, however coolant molecules are so small, they can seep through the small gaps. Easier to run without coolant or water for 60 seconds; its enough to melt it prior to filling with coolant mix.

 

I have learnt something new, i have never used one of those only the copper ones

[coopertaz]

 

Why did you run it without coolant in, and how do you know it was warm and not too hot? The temp gauge would read properly without coolant.

I think the head is going to have to come off, so you will see if the head gasket has failed. 

Silly question but the studs aren't too long and not pulling the head down properly before they run out of thread?

 

That's the running in recommendation for the headgasket by Payen. It melts the laquer on the BK450 to help seal, however coolant molecules are so small, they can seep through the small gaps. Easier to run without coolant or water for 60 seconds; its enough to melt it prior to filling with coolant mix.

 

every day it seems is a school day. never done this though and not had gasket issues!

[JonnyAlpha]

So following up on this issue.

 

I drained the coolant and stripped the head off, gasket is fine.

 

 

 

 

When I removed the gasket, it did appear that there had been coolant sitting under the gasket (The car had been left for a month before stripping due to a Hospital operation).

 

 

Cleaned the block face and cylinder head and gave it all a final clean with acetone.

 

 

 

 

The rear studs in the block appeared to be 'wet' so after cleaning and drying I refitted the ARP studs with some green gloop that Keith Calver recommended and sent me (he uses it for bore liners.

 

 

Studs back in (after check countersinks.

 

 

Here's the oil that came out.

 

 

Fitted new head gasket, drained the oil, re-built the top end and this time re-fitted the HIF44. Torqued to 45 lb/ft with ARP lube.

Changed the oil filter, set the rocker / tappets, started the engine until No 4 cylinder hot. Switched off engine, re-torqued head studs, left to cool down. Filled radiator with water and ran engine to operating temp and re-torqued.

 

Engine runs fine, no smoke AFR seems normal.

Here's the engine running.

 

https://youtu.be/Qgb...BPnIM5E0mCKY4qc

 

Checked oil:

 

 

 

 Water in rad went brown.

 

 

I did not use any Wynns engine flush nor did I flush the radiator?

 

Next steps?

Edited by JonnyAlpha, 27 January 2024 - 12:32 PM.

[nicklouse]

Sorry but did you clean the head and block as it ,

looks like it is still covered in crap in the pictures. Did you check for flatnesses of both head and block?

 

why did you not clean out the waterways/rad?

 

strip it down and find the failed gasket/crack.

[JonnyAlpha]

Sorry but did you clean the head and block as it ,

looks like it is still covered in crap in the pictures. Did you check for flatnesses of both head and block?

 

why did you not clean out the waterways/rad?

 

strip it down and find the failed gasket/crack.

 

Gasket was fine and I installed a new one when I put it back together again. Faces have some staining but apart from that they were both cleaned with the edge of a stanley blade (without scratching of course, scotchbrite and then acetone). To get it any cleaner would require something abraisive like wire wool and that would cause too much damage.

Sadly i missed the opportunity to check the block and head for flatness as i was sure it was leaking through the studs.

Edited by JonnyAlpha, 27 January 2024 - 05:45 PM.