19 replies to this topic

[maystro]

Hi, 
 

I had to split my rear brake hoses because I was installing new radius pins and suspension.  Since then I cannot bleed the brakes.  I get plenty of fluid out of the front cylinders but not a drop out of the rear.   I also noticed the rear drum brake adjusters are seized and need adjusting because the wheels just free spin very easily on the drum. 
 

Sorry two questions in one topic?

Is their a way to get the adjusters moving other than welding on a nut which is not really the hack I am after?

How do I get fluid to the rear cylinders.  Do I need to bleed the pressure limiting valve in the rear of my Moke before I bleed the wheels?  I have seen the Gunson  eze bleed but I cannot get that locally in a hurry.   

I can get this from Repco and hopefully I can hook it up to my big thumper tyre compressor with an adapter. 
 
https://www.repco.co...fcaAvdYEALw_wcB

Thanks
Brad

Oh yeah Hi Chris ole Mate.
 

 

 

[DeadSquare]

This is no help to you, but when racing a Mini, I (and others) used to put a ball-bearing in the pressure limiter (Where the pipes emanate to each real wheel).  It helped to stop the rear end breaking away under late braking.

 

 

 

A Pearl of wisdom.

 

  I have seen the Gunson  eze bleed but I cannot get that locally in a hurry.  I can get this from Repco and hopefully I can hook it up to my big thumper tyre compressor with an adapter.

 

I have modified a metal valve cap, to depress the schroder valve tit and let air into a tube that goes on to a modified brake reservoir .  I bleed brakes using the spare tyre.

 

[nicklouse]

Heat on the adjuster. Or soak with PlusGas. (Should have checked before reassembly).

 

sounds like you are pressing the pedal too fast which is closing the thingy on the front bulkhead. Or even the one on the rear subframe.  Try just leaving the nipples open and let gravity do the work.

 

but fix the adjusters first.

Edited by nicklouse, 12 March 2023 - 09:53 AM.

[KTS]

the stahlbus 150ml vacuum bellows are a good bit of kit for drawing fluid through the system if you can get hold of them.  Good to topping up reservoirs without worrying about spills too

 

http://www.ims-racin...ce-Specials.php

[bpirie1000]

Try putting your thumb
Over the bleed nipple see if there is any pressure, either air or fluid...

[Spider]

Hey Brad !

Usually a penetrate (WD40 is not one of these) and possibly some heat, as Nick suggested, should loosen the adjusters up.

 

In regards to bleeding the brakes, your Moke should have an Inertia type shut off valve in the rear subframe, so any pressure in the line won't close off that type of valve. Just check this is the valve you have as it will affect how you bleed the brakes. It'll look like this and is located on the right rail of the subframe;-

 

 

I'd suggest here too, starting at the start. Crack the Brake Line (undo it say 1/8 turn) coming out of your Master for the Rear Brakes, this should be the top line, pump the pedal slow and you should see some fluid coming out here. It the system was run dry, it might need a couple of pumps. Once you get fluid coming from here, I'd suggest moving on to the Inlet Pipe on the Rear Valve, that's the one that comes in the very back end of it, and do the same there. Once you get fluid coming out here, then move on to the lines coming out of the flex lines to the wheels and then finally, the wheel cylinders. Tip: It the hard lines are hard to 'crack' then rather than round off the tube nuts with a spanner (even a line spanner), use vise grips.

While I suggest working through the system in this way, I'd suspect the flex lines have collapsed and / or the wheel cylinders are karput.

 

While this might sound is a little tedious, it will help you find any blockage that might be in the system. I suspect it's been like this for some time though as with your adjusters seized, the rear shoes haven't been wearing, they only wear when they come in to play on braking.

 

[maystro]

Thanks Chris,  as usual you were spot on about the rear wheel cylinders being "kaput".   

I did the checks you suggested and had fluid all the way down to rear rubber lines where they go into the hard steel lines on the trailing arms.  I even bought one of those vac pumps you hook up to a compressor and nothing was coming out of those rear bleed nipples so with a wing and a prayer I was able to get two new wheel cylinders local.  Voila with that new one man sucking device I have brakes and the wife wasn't even involved...geez that doesn't sound right  

Oh yeah as Nick said I got some good penetrate and a fancy ass propylene torch to loosen the brake adjusters.  I was kinda disappointed because the CRC Penetrate worked in 5 minutes and I never even got to fire up a flame. 

Anyway thanks guys, problem solved and my Moke is running with good brakes and new rear suspension.   Yeah Chris, the broken radius pin forced me to put in the new suspension I bought about 18 months ago and the new pins and Torrington bearings on the pins. 

Thanks guys 

 

[maystro]

Hi, 

 

Just sneaking in a third question which is related.   

 

When I was installing the new rear brake wheel cylinders one of the steel brake lines which run along the trailing arm which attaches to the wheel cylinder was seized so it twisted and eventually snapped off.  Luckily I had some copper pipe and a flaring tool and made a new pipe.  Just wandering is copper pipe up to the challenge and even legal in this situation?  Should I be ordering a new steel pipe?

 

Thanks

[maystro]

Okay I just found this braided kit. Does this replace the steel lines on the trailing arms and the short rubber hoses which lead up to the trailing arm steel pipes?  Is this a worthy upgrade or should I just go to a brake place and get them to fabricate a replacement steel pipe?
Thanks.

 

https://minisport.co...se-kit-set-of-4

[Quinlan minor]

Copper brake pipe is perfectly suitable. The reason it's not OEM fitted is because of the expense.

I'm, personally, not a fan of braided steel lines. In my opinion, they detract from brake feel and I've heard tales of problems where they have been mixed with rubber hoses: ie. fit them all round or don't fit them.

[Spider]

Bummer there Brad.

Cooper was use long ago, however, it's no longer legal to use it in Australia, as it's claimed to wok harden and crack.

The Kit you've posted up replaces the normal rubber hoses only, it's not a replacement for the metal lines.

Off hand, I don't know of anyone who sells these pipes off the shelf for Mokes. Keep in mind, they are different to those used on Minis, the Moke's Trailing Arm is considerably longer.

I'd suggest here the fastest way out of this for you is to go see one on the Brake Specialists local to you, take your old pipe, or make a template from coathanger wire, and have them make you one. It you're lucky, they'll do it while you wait. The fittings on both ends are 3/8" UNF.

[maystro]

Copper brake pipe is perfectly suitable. The reason it's not OEM fitted is because of the expense.

I'm, personally, not a fan of braided steel lines. In my opinion, they detract from brake feel and I've heard tales of problems where they have been mixed with rubber hoses: ie. fit them all round or don't fit them.

Thanks mate, it looks like a case of the over regulated regulators in Australia saying we can't use copper pipe in the so called lucky country.  Seems weird when in the UK you can buy the correct kit from Mini Spares which is made of copper and bend it to any shape you want.  

[maystro]

I'd suggest here the fastest way out of this for you is to go see one on the Brake Specialists local to you, take your old pipe, or make a template from coathanger wire, and have them make you one. It you're lucky, they'll do it while you wait. The fittings on both ends are 3/8" UNF.

Yeah thanks Chris, I know a good brake bloke who made some custom steel pipes for my clutch system when some of the connectors striped.  

This copper pipe I made up is perfect because of it's mailabilities and was able to bend to every angle I needed.

 

I think I will be living life on the edge and using this pipe for a while till I have some time off and able to take this same hose to a brake place to replicate in steel.  
 

Most Mokers don't tackle the big red hill

Oh yeah just an up date on my suspension after you steered me in the right direction for part selection.   I thought my ride was smooth when I upgraded to the new rubber cones and Matt Read Hi Lo's on the front but after finally fitting the rear cones (you did say to let the cones sit for a while) and all the goodies, it feels like a whole new ride,  smooth and tight.    My back thanks you Chris

 

[Lplus]

 

Copper brake pipe is perfectly suitable. The reason it's not OEM fitted is because of the expense.

I'm, personally, not a fan of braided steel lines. In my opinion, they detract from brake feel and I've heard tales of problems where they have been mixed with rubber hoses: ie. fit them all round or don't fit them.

Thanks mate, it looks like a case of the over regulated regulators in Australia saying we can't use copper pipe in the so called lucky country.  Seems weird when in the UK you can buy the correct kit from Mini Spares which is made of copper and bend it to any shape you want.  

 

Cupro nickel is allowed in the UK, pure copper isn't.
 

[Quinlan minor]

 

Copper brake pipe is perfectly suitable. The reason it's not OEM fitted is because of the expense.

I'm, personally, not a fan of braided steel lines. In my opinion, they detract from brake feel and I've heard tales of problems where they have been mixed with rubber hoses: ie. fit them all round or don't fit them.

Cupro nickel is allowed in the UK, pure copper isn't.
 

 

 

You are, of course, correct.

 

Common usage describes both cupro nickel and cunifer pipe as "copper".

Much the same way as beans are described as coming in a "tin" or bumpers as "chrome".

Edited by Quinlan minor, 17 March 2023 - 05:35 PM.