245 replies to this topic

[Lowestoftmodder]

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=jxtxZY45RMM

[Ethel]

I notice they said nothing about  managing hydrogen as a fuel. It'd have to be at 1,400 times atmospheric pressure to have a similar energy density to diesel. Current gas powered vehicle tanks are at about a 6th of that. You might get close with a truck, but it doesn't sound like you're going to even equal a current electric car for range without making some major changes of concept.

 

Texans who got rich selling oil are bound to be keen on replacing it with something else they can pump for profit.

[Lowestoftmodder]

I notice they said nothing about  managing hydrogen as a fuel. It'd have to be at 1,400 times atmospheric pressure to have a similar energy density to diesel. Current gas powered vehicle tanks are at about a 6th of that. You might get close with a truck, but it doesn't sound like you're going to even equal a current electric car for range without making some major changes of concept.
 
Texans who got rich selling oil are bound to be keen on replacing it with something else they can pump for profit.

My link isn’t about roughing up the future of electric but more to show there needs to be multiple approaches to get to where we need to be.
The fact that JCB is doing this now is good news.

Hydrogen is hugely abundant and can be used direct or as a storage medium. Using renewable energy or off peak electric production could help hydrogens viability.. something other countries are exploring.

We’ve had an oil based economy for a very long time and I just don’t think in my humble opinion that a battery economy is the future.
Power density? Many electric cars are nearly a tonne heavier than their ice cousins. The loses in efficiency from that extra weight are rarely discussed.. the cold effect on range however is and soon it will be what do we do with all of the batteries when they are discarded?
I’m not attacking the electric car but I just don’t think what we see now is the answer? Just like I’ve said before.

I for one hope that we explore all options and the work JCB is doing seems a good step in the right direction.

As for transport etc? I’m guessing as JCB and Toyota has invested a fair few quid into the future of hydrogen that they have a plan?

Although I just popped a link up for perspective I felt I needed to reply to your post as you seemed that you wanted to post up a detailed reason for me to seem on the wrong end of your opinions? That’s not the case and I’ve hope I’ve explained my reasons?

Cheers

[Ethel]

I don't doubt there's a role for hydrogen,  but I don't think it's very large for personal transport in developed countries. I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota are of the same opinion, but with the converse focus. Those Hiluxes crop up in some remote places.

 

I do think batteries offer unique advantages. Capturing energy, cleanly, from the environment is going to involve electricity. The environment is everywhere so we can produce energy everywhere & negate the need to transport it moreso than we do now with tankers, pipes, pylons & cables. Energy production from wind & solar is going to be variable, so storage will be necessary. It follows it will be better if it's closer to the point of use & mobile, so we have the flexibility to move it from the point of generation to the point of use. You could make an analogy of how road transport superseded rail with what could be with domestic solar panels and EVs with grid power.

 

Vehicle weight is only really relevant when you're accelerating (I know, Mini sacrilege). Conserving inertia matters more & battery EVs have potential for regeneration. The cost argument is already won. I'd think even allowing for fuel duty, though I haven't done the sums. It must be truer if your juice is coming for free off your own roof.

 

I do appreciate your link, as furthering the conversation. I commented on it with the same intention, fully appreciating  JCB are being partisan about their business & products is to be expected & reasonable 

 

I defo agree with their gaffer about hybrids being an important pathfinder technology. Though I'm more skeptical that there's a case for a wholesale switch from petrol & diesel infrastructure to hydrogen. In that respect it's no different to charging points now or LPG previously.

[Ethel]

...thinking about it there could be a strong case for some government strategy.

 

We're already shutting down wind turbines because we have excess generating capacity on occasions.

 

We have operators of large fleets of large vehicles, capable of large scale influence on demand.

 

Bring those together to make a viable, predictable, model for generating, distributing and consuming green hydrogen and you'd have a massive leg up to making a new technology more attractive in general.

[Shooter63]

People themselves are probably the most polluting thing on the planet,that is before all the pollution they directly or indirectly cause.Food for thought?Steve..

You my friend are 100% correct, I was recently in a meeting with one of the top bods in the field,and he said as much, my question to him was " what can you do about it" the answer " nothing"

Shooter

Edited by Shooter63, 12 March 2023 - 06:24 PM.

[ThermalEvent]

The more developed countries become the less children people have. Some people believe it will actually go the other way and population will top out soon. Not a bad thing I suppose.

I think green energy is a load of BS at the moment. We have no way of storing it for any usable amount of time for the UK population.

Nuclear has got to be the way forward for now and using it to generate hydrogen I believe is the way forward.

[Ethel]

The main driver in population growth has been life expectancy. The UK birth rate hasn't increased the population since 1972.

 

 

Cost is king

 

[ThermalEvent]

They reckon around 2100 the earth's population will top out. Not long really considering we've been on this earth a few hundred thousand years.

Solar and wind would be good... if they worked well at night. Until we have decent battery storage that could/would last an evening until sunrise for the entire UK I think its a non starter.

We need an interim solution until better battery technology is available and surely nuclear is the way to go as it will work day/night and emissions is similar to that of wind/solar.

The other thing that bugs me with this green revolution/electric cars is "net zero" by 2050. It just ain't gonna happen in that time, maybe 2100/2200 if we are lucky but we have a long way to go.

[sonscar]

A quicker way to net zero?Stop making new stuff?Steve..

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

A quicker way to net zero?Stop making new stuff?Steve..

What like new cars?  How about we all drive old cars and repair them when they go wrong?  If sustainability was really the goal we'd do that.  Hey, some of us already are with Minis!

[mab01uk]

Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars....



Between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former employees.
“We could see inside people's garages and their private properties,” said another former employee. “Let's say that a Tesla customer had something in their garage that was distinctive, you know, people would post those kinds of things.”
Tesla didn't respond to detailed questions sent to the company for this report.
Two ex-employees said they weren’t bothered by the sharing of images, saying that customers had given their consent or that people long ago had given up any reasonable expectation of keeping personal data private. Three others, however, said they were troubled by it.
“It was a breach of privacy, to be honest. And I always joked that I would never buy a Tesla after seeing how they treated some of these people,” said one former employee.
Another said: “I’m bothered by it because the people who buy the car, I don't think they know that their privacy is, like, not respected … We could see them doing laundry and really intimate things. We could see their kids.”
One former employee saw nothing wrong with sharing images, but described a function that allowed data labelers to view the location of recordings on Google Maps as a “massive invasion of privacy.”
David Choffnes, executive director of the Cybersecurity and Privacy Institute at Northeastern University in Boston, called sharing of sensitive videos and images by Tesla employees “morally reprehensible.”
“Any normal human being would be appalled by this,” he said. He noted that circulating sensitive and personal content could be construed as a violation of Tesla’s own privacy policy — potentially resulting in intervention by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, which enforces federal laws relating to consumers’ privacy.
“People who walked by these vehicles were filmed without knowing it. And the owners of the Teslas could go back and look at these images,” said DPA board member Katja Mur in a statement. “If a person parked one of these vehicles in front of someone’s window, they could spy inside and see everything the other person was doing. That is a serious violation of privacy.”
The watchdog determined it wasn’t Tesla, but the vehicles’ owners, who were legally responsible for their cars’ recordings. It said it decided not to fine the company after Tesla said it had made several changes to Sentry Mode, including having a vehicle’s headlights pulse to inform passers-by that they may be being recorded.
In interviews, two former employees said in their normal work duties they were sometimes asked to view images of customers in and around their homes, including inside garages.
“I sometimes wondered if these people know that we're seeing that,” said one.
“I saw some scandalous stuff sometimes, you know, like I did see scenes of intimacy but not nudity,” said another. “And there was just definitely a lot of stuff that like, I wouldn't want anybody to see about my life.”
As an example, this person recalled seeing “embarrassing objects,” such as “certain pieces of laundry, certain sexual wellness items … and just private scenes of life that we really were privy to because the car was charging.”
One of the perks of working for Tesla as a data labeler in San Mateo was the chance to win a prize – use of a company car for a day or two, according to two former employees.
But some of the lucky winners became paranoid when driving the electric cars.
“Knowing how much data those vehicles are capable of collecting definitely made folks nervous," one ex-employee said.
The Full Report by Reuters:-
https://www.reuters....ars-2023-04-06/

I think I will stick with my 'old' ICE cars with no factory fitted cameras for as long as possible...

 

[PoolGuy]

I find it all quite amusing. Nothing is secret anymore, people moan about privacy but carry a mobile phone and use a supermarket loyalty card, walk past 100’s of cctv cameras with facial recognition every week, use a pseudonym on social media to feel safer, but most are relatively easily identified. 

[greenwheels]

Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars....



Between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former employees.
“We could see inside people's garages and their private properties,” said another former employee. “Let's say that a Tesla customer had something in their garage that was distinctive, you know, people would post those kinds of things.”
Tesla didn't respond to detailed questions sent to the company for this report.
Two ex-employees said they weren’t bothered by the sharing of images, saying that customers had given their consent or that people long ago had given up any reasonable expectation of keeping personal data private. Three others, however, said they were troubled by it.
“It was a breach of privacy, to be honest. And I always joked that I would never buy a Tesla after seeing how they treated some of these people,” said one former employee.
Another said: “I’m bothered by it because the people who buy the car, I don't think they know that their privacy is, like, not respected … We could see them doing laundry and really intimate things. We could see their kids.”
One former employee saw nothing wrong with sharing images, but described a function that allowed data labelers to view the location of recordings on Google Maps as a “massive invasion of privacy.”
David Choffnes, executive director of the Cybersecurity and Privacy Institute at Northeastern University in Boston, called sharing of sensitive videos and images by Tesla employees “morally reprehensible.”
“Any normal human being would be appalled by this,” he said. He noted that circulating sensitive and personal content could be construed as a violation of Tesla’s own privacy policy — potentially resulting in intervention by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, which enforces federal laws relating to consumers’ privacy.
“People who walked by these vehicles were filmed without knowing it. And the owners of the Teslas could go back and look at these images,” said DPA board member Katja Mur in a statement. “If a person parked one of these vehicles in front of someone’s window, they could spy inside and see everything the other person was doing. That is a serious violation of privacy.”
The watchdog determined it wasn’t Tesla, but the vehicles’ owners, who were legally responsible for their cars’ recordings. It said it decided not to fine the company after Tesla said it had made several changes to Sentry Mode, including having a vehicle’s headlights pulse to inform passers-by that they may be being recorded.
In interviews, two former employees said in their normal work duties they were sometimes asked to view images of customers in and around their homes, including inside garages.
“I sometimes wondered if these people know that we're seeing that,” said one.
“I saw some scandalous stuff sometimes, you know, like I did see scenes of intimacy but not nudity,” said another. “And there was just definitely a lot of stuff that like, I wouldn't want anybody to see about my life.”
As an example, this person recalled seeing “embarrassing objects,” such as “certain pieces of laundry, certain sexual wellness items … and just private scenes of life that we really were privy to because the car was charging.”
One of the perks of working for Tesla as a data labeler in San Mateo was the chance to win a prize – use of a company car for a day or two, according to two former employees.
But some of the lucky winners became paranoid when driving the electric cars.
“Knowing how much data those vehicles are capable of collecting definitely made folks nervous," one ex-employee said.
The Full Report by Reuters:-
https://www.reuters....ars-2023-04-06/

I think I will stick with my 'old' ICE cars with no factory fitted cameras for as long as possible...

I find that story absolutely horrific!! It seems that nowadays there is no privacy from social media to being photographed in the street, now even your car is watching and recording you!

[Lowestoftmodder]

I find it all quite amusing. Nothing is secret anymore, people moan about privacy but carry a mobile phone and use a supermarket loyalty card, walk past 100’s of cctv cameras with facial recognition every week, use a pseudonym on social media to feel safer, but most are relatively easily identified.

I don’t carry a smart mobile phone, I don’t do social media (Facebook), I don’t have tick-tock and I rarely use debit or credit cards for daily transactions. This isn’t so much for privacy but more about not being constantly harassed by advertising companies and people I don’t want to speak to.
If I have to give details to use a website then they are often not my actual name which makes it fun when I get emails saying ‘good morning “itchy Bum Worms” we have noticed unusual activity in your bank account’ etc etc

The internet is a great tool in the right hands but sadly it seems so full of tools too