I'm late to this discussion - AND it also took me a while to catch up...
A few thoughts. - And I'll also follow-up with some interesting images that I've run into since the EV debate started.
Not much of a debate in my mind. EV is it all the way. For 90%+ of the population, today's EVs will meet the need just fine.
But Oh - Yes. there is fear & panic about all things new which require change (and a basic understanding of maths!)
I thought the difficulty was on this side of the pond with the heavy lobby (cultural & political) from the oil producers. I see this seems to be more widespread than I thought...
Oh how the misinformation goes round and round!
I’ve now done 80,000 miles in my daily EV so can comment from that personal experience rather than the Facebook-informed experience.
The vast majority of EV owners charge at home or their place of work, the “charge rate” is approximately 4 miles per kw per hour of charge, so a 3kw charger at home will give 12 miles of charge per hour, charge overnight and it’ll be full in the morning (80% usually).
I’ve never charged at more than 2kw at home because I don’t have a dedicated charger, I use a 13A plug we have on the front of the house. When I got the car I decided to see how I got on and I’d have a charger installed at home if I needed one which hasn’t yet happened.
At work I can charge with 12kw but in reality if it was a typical 7kw “home” charge level I wouldn’t have an issue. If occasionally I only get to say 60% charge because I’ve used it more or time was limited it simply gets topped up the next day. In fact more recently I’ve only been charging it to 70%.
The only time I use a public or supercharger is when I travel further afield, and then it tends to be chargers on the motorway network and typically I’ll stop for maybe half an hour. These days my bladder really appreciates that topping up takes a little longer and the reality is that by the time you’ve found a loo and got back to the car, it’s certainly not the 5 minutes you thought it’d be. I’ve had to queue a few times at public chargers but never for more than 5-10 minutes, the maths quoted already in this thread assumes there’s only one charger and a queue meaning you’ll be there for hours, if that’s what you want to believe, ho hum. None of us have ever had to queue for fuel at a m-way services have we?
The reality is I spend less time “involved” with charging than I did “fuelling” my previous car with diesel. I park up, plug it in and walk away. It might appear odd to some people but I’m generally not in the habit of standing next to the car holding the charging nozzle while it charges, why would I want to do that.
Sadly people are buying EVs thinking they can charge them at Tesco while they do their shopping that will fill them up for the week, then they moan when it doesn’t work out. It’s not the same technology as ICEs and quick fill-ups can’t happen. You charge every day and just keep topping up, however few miles you do in the day.
It’s not complicated even though there’s an awful lot of people without first hand knowledge willing to tell you that it is.
There may be particular aspects to EV ownership in the UK - But I can tell you that even in desolate Northern Mexico they work brilliantly... And our needs far exceed those of a city car as we travel to the USA often all the way to the San Francisco Bay - and this is not a short trip.
Today - talking about hydrogen passenger vehicles is silly. It just does not make any sense. (I'll dig-up some graphics on this...)
Hybrids are a non-starter in my book. Hybrids certainly had their place -BUT 10 or 12 years ago! I definitely would not purchase a hybrid today. (Ok. maybe for SOME use cases...)
But it is not an elegant solution by modern means. Carrying 2 drivetrains is definitely NOT what I want. I want simplicity, not more complexity - and inefficiency. Maintenance hassles (and cost - essentially go away with an EV). No oil changes, etc. etc.
Is a Hybrid better than a pure ICE vehicle? Yes. but it is not the best solution today.
I can say with certainty that I've already purchased my last-ever internal combustion vehicle (I have a capable 4x4 ICE off roader - with a manual gearbox, thank you - for camping and BAJA exploring purposes).
All battery EVs for us going forward. (I will only give up my manual gearbox for an EV).
I will get an EV 4x4 when a suitable replacement appears (3,4, or 5 years from now?) - at a reasonable price. there are some attractive prototypes out there!
I don't see an issue when traveling long distances in our EV. 2, 3, 4 hundred miles. We've gone on 10 day road trips in it without an issue. Plenty of room for family and luggage, comfortable, QUIET, and FAST.
We plan charges at meal times. And the car charges too fast; I have to stop eating to move the car!
I'd expect batteries will be better / cleaner / lighter / cheaper (looking at recent progress in those respects.).
By the time my 4x4 replacement is available as the technology will be even better than today. Batteries are is constantly improving and prices are coming down at an impressive rate... . batteries and vehicles will only get better.
To be completely fair - Fuel and maintenance costs should be accounted for in the ICE vs EV equation comparison. I enjoy fueling my EV with only the sunshine that falls on my roof!
When / how can you ever get free fuel for an EV?? (Yes - I had to pay for the solar panels so there was a cost... but this system also powers our home and will pay for itself in a handful of years.)
You get free fuel while at the shops, etc. I even worked out free charging on the road for YEARS when purchasing the car. So yes. FREE FUEL.I spend less time fueling the EV than any ICE vehicle ever before.
and hell yes... - I'll be keeping my mini!
So if you run out of power completely according to that CAUTION you have to stay in the car until someone plugs you into a low voltage supply so you can open the door to get out without shattering a window.
Having almost reached the age of 75 if I need a new car there is no way I will go fully electric but might consider a hybrid.
EV's don't instantly run out of battery energy. Your EV will scream at you well before this happens... It would be insane. My EV has never been below a range of some 50-60 miles. And I travel in quite desolate places. You typically work with a lower charge limit of 20%+ as a battery health management strategy ... So whoever lets their battery go to 0%, sorry - but they have some other pretty severe issues...
EV related, has anybody noticed that there car insurance has gone through the roof, my daily driver is a big engined turbocharged oil burner, last year the insurance was £495.00 this years renewal is £800.00!!!!! I've got a clean licence etc, no changes at all, after shopping around my present company is actually the cheapest which is unusual. I happen to know a guy in the insurance industry and asked him why has it gone up so much as I didn't believe the speil being punted out on the net. The true reason is that the insurance companies are writing off so many EV's that are involved in accidents in case there has been some sort of a battery pack damage leading to even more of the sodding things catching on fire. Happy days.
Shooter
Insurance is increasing across the board - and this is not due to EVs. All newer vehicles seem to suffer damage by looking at them hard. There are sensors and cameras mounted everywhere you are likely to bump into something (On newer ICE vehicles too - and newer ICE vehicles are spying on you too!)
The newer structural safety requirements also increase repair costs as areas are designed to crumple on impact. 20 airbags to replace is a huge cost and this results in more write offs... Parts scarcity is also an issue with all new cars. Any new car will likely surprise you with the insurance costs these days!
Volkswagen to lay off thousands of staff, cut salaries and close three car factories in Germany amid electric car slowdown.
"Volkswagen plans to shut at least three factories, lay off tens of thousands of its workforce and introduce further cost-cutting measures in Germany as part of a deeper-than-expected overhaul to the business, the company's works council head said on Monday.
Europe's biggest car maker has been negotiating for weeks with unions over intentions to adjust its operations and slash costs as the manufacturer responds to headwinds in the motor industry.
A slowdown in uptake of electric vehicles and the emerging popularity of cheaper Chinese brands in Europe has forced the German powerhouse to consider factory closures on home soil for the first time."
https://www.thisismo...es-Germany.html
So the Daily Mail who print dozens of anti EV stories based on long disproven evidence take the “due to EV sales slowdown” line. Fact is that rising interest rates and economic conditions have seen a drop off in demand for all new car sales everywhere. Meanwhile EV market share is growing. Couple this with the fact that the legacy euro manufacturers have been slow in their EV adoption, and have until recently been offering sub standard products compared to pacific rim and asian manufacturers. This is about so much more than EVs but the Daily Mail continue to print their FUD relentlessly. Oh and lets not forget the continuing VW reputation damage since the diesel gate scandal and reliability issues. It a real shame but once VW recognise their recent failing they’ll recover.
Sales have dropped off on any high cost item that people tend to finance... Not just EVs. Yes the insane rate of growth we saw (including crazy price premiums due to lack of EV SUPPLY) has slowed, but the growth rate seems to stay higher than that for ICE vehicles.
Used EV Prices are (fortunately) coming down. This is a positive.
The legacy auto makers sure make a lot of noise. Bad decision making on EVs have left them far behind. EV makers have also missed the mark on product offers. - Not everyone needs a luxury, super fast, high tech wonder - and this is where EVs are concentrated. (I could use some basic and simple buttons for some functions... I do not want EVERYTHING to be controlled over a massive I-pad... (A stupid trend) - But even ICE vehicles have these.)
There is a serious gap in basic, practical, lower tech, low cost models. This is being filled by the Chinese who are far ahead in this game - and everyone is now running scared. (You can already hear the automaker's usual screams of protectionism to cover bad strategy decision-making!)
Hopefully the upcoming EV ved will also help weed
out the people who are driving EV’s for tax reasons rather than the claimed eco benefits. Yes, that’s those of you who don’t keep them long enough to offset the production co2 numbers.
How long do you think that is, time or mileage wise?
The economic case behind EVs is hard to dispute... (but we do need more 'practical' offerings). We need an EV Issigonis!
It’s actually government forcing them to make EVs, not really a choice they themselves have had the luxury to make.
The world changes though and whether legacy car makers are part of the future will depend upon whether they are able to change with it. Some will not be able to make the change despite being considered top players in the industry. Remember Nokia …
Detroit's car manufacturer's will struggle to survive without (even MORE protectionism). As usual they are off track and scrambling after squandering their huge advantage in technology, automotive manufacturing expertise and an established automotive component supplier base... The startups leapfrogged them and their heads are spinning. - Were they not paying attention as the emerging EV companies closed in with respect to every aspect of car manufacturing & sales).
EV adoption will slow. Yes. All the early adopters will have their EVs already. The late-comers will struggle more to make the change - some will resist until the end and will be running scared from the 'evil' technology.
We've seen it all before... (personal computers, phones, etc.)
See pictures below:
- A published newspaper cartoon from 1899 when Electricity installations was becoming widespread and some people thought they'd all be killed (along with their horses!). (Why do folks get so scared / defensive!?)
- The Horse dealers did some some hard marketing against automobiles in their own right! :)
This ad defending the horse gives me the impression of the Detroit auto makers trying to persuade a marked moving beyond them...
Chevrolet had the first successful EV... What did they do with this huge advantage??
You can name your horse - but not your car... (The mini had not come along yet!)
Edited by Blumeanie, 16 January 2025 - 05:54 PM.
