285 replies to this topic

[Shooter63]

This isn't a for or against post, more of a "we are getting rinsed as normal and things could be about to change on the P11D front.
First off the P11D, it's freely known that this is going to rise at around 1% a year, this could well be changing, I was out at the weekend and bumped into a fellow club member who happens to be a senior tax officer, he was saying that there are pretty decent rumours knocking about that no11 are looking to increase this quite substantially we will wait and see.
Now onto the "we are getting rinsed as normal bit" the EU has got its way with the Chinese EV manufacturers, as you are no doubt aware the EU car manufacturers went crying to the government about how unfair it will be if the Chinese start selling their EV's at their super duper knock down prices, thus meaning the euro companies will have to come into line rather than ripping us off as per normal. If you search for the price of a BYD in China and the Euro selling price you will see what I mean.

Shooter

[PoolGuy]

Good, hopefully they’ll be looking into taxing free charging at the workplace too.

[mab01uk]

Volvo becomes latest car maker to abandon plans to sell only electric vehicles by 2030.
Volvo has confirmed it has backtracked on its promise to sell only fully electric cars by 2030 due to a fall in demand for battery vehicles.
The Swedish company announced today it is now aiming for 90 to 100 per cent of its global sales to be either pure electric or plug-in hybrid by the end of the decade.
It comes in response to a decline in appetite for EVs across major markets, including a slowing uptake of battery cars among private buyers in the UK.
Volvo executives said the delay to its EV schedule will 'allow for a limited number of mild hybrid models to be sold, if needed'.
Volvo's previous target, which it set back in 2021 when the future EV landscape appeared more robust, was for its entire car range to be pure electric by 2030.
However, a downturn in EV sales worldwide has seen it - like some of its rivals - put the brakes on its green ambitions.
Wednesday's announcement is the latest U-turn by Volvo in recent weeks.
Having previously stated it would no longer be selling its iconic estate cars in the UK last year, in June it said they would return to UK showrooms less than a year after they were axed.
And they will be coming back with hybrid petrol engines under the bonnet, as demand for electric vehicles stalls.
It comes after Ford recently said its own plans to become an EV-only brand from 2030 were 'too ambitious' and Fiat confirmed it has torn up plans for its 500 city car to be electric-only because older drivers don't want electric models.
Akio Toyoda, Chairman at Toyota, said in January that battery-powered electric vehicles will never dominate the car market and make up no more than a third of global sales. Toyoda said the shift to EVs is not the answer when a billion people worldwide live without electricity: ‘We also supply vehicles to these regions, so a single BEV option cannot provide transportation for everyone,’ he said.
‘No matter how much progress EVs make, I think they will still only have a 30 per cent market share.’
In May, Toyota, Mazda and Subaru committed to bring to market smaller petrol engines to use alongside hybrid technology and adopt green biofuels to lower vehicle emissions as the Japanese motor brands suggests their hesitance to go entirely electric.
Toyota, the world's biggest car seller, described the development as 'an engine reborn'.

https://www.thisismo...icles-2030.html

 

Edited by mab01uk, 04 September 2024 - 07:06 PM.

[mab01uk]

Maybe that early Mini 'barn find' restoration project was a good long term investment after all....

The 10 fastest-depreciating electric cars after 36k miles/3 years - What Car magazine
https://www.whatcar....ric-cars/n27076

1: Nissan Leaf
Model Acenta 39kWh | List price £28,995| 36k/3yr resale value £6425 | Price drop £22,570 | Retained value 22.16%

2: Vauxhall Corsa electric
Model Design 50kWh | List price £32,445 | 36k/3yr resale value £7700 | Price drop £24,745 | Retained value 23.73%

3: DS 3 E-Tense
Model Performance Line | List price £38,465 | 36k/3yr resale value £9150 | Price drop £29,315 | Retained value 23.79%

4: Citroën ë-C4
Model You 50kwh | List price £31,960 | 36k/3yr resale value £8500 | Price drop £23,460 | Retained value 26.60%

5: Vauxhall Mokka Electric
Model GS 115kWh | List price £31,960 | 36k/3yr resale value £10,775 | Price drop £39,735 | Retained value 27.12%

6: Jaguar I-Pace
Model EV400 R-Dynamic S 90kWh | List price £69,995 | 36k/3yr resale value £20,775 | Price drop £49,220 | Retained value 29.68%

7: Mazda MX-30
Model Makoto 35.5kWh | List price £32,395 | 36k/3yr resale value £9750 | Price drop £22,645 | Retained value 30.10%

8: MG ZS EV
Model Trophy 51kWh | List price £35,495 | 36k/3yr resale value £11,075 | Price drop £24,420 | Retained value 31.00%

9: Fiat 500
Model 42kWh La Prima | List price £30,995 | 36k/3yr resale value £9775 | Price drop £21,220 | Retained value 31.54%

10: Peugeot e-208
Model Active 50kWh | List price £28,200 | 36k/3yr resale value £9125 | Price drop £19,075 | Retained value 32.36%

 

[Bobbins]

Akio Toyoda, Chairman at Toyota, said in January that battery-powered electric vehicles will never dominate the car market and make up no more than a third of global sales

Which potentially means 99% of a third of the global car market will be made in China.

[Black.Ghost]

I've got to say, I have a Hyundai Ioniq 5 for my daily use and I love it. The range is around 200 miles a charge, it's comfortable and eaasy to drive, especially in traffic and most of my miles are up and down motorways, or into London. It saves a lot on fuel costs, because it's a work lease car I pay no other costs.

 

I absolutely get the gripes around public charging infrastructure, but for me personally, I rarely need to make use of it. I rarely do journeys in excess of 200 mile round trip, visiting a couple of siblings being the only real time that changes. Sure I do have to plan ahead a bit more, but a couple of chargers I have found will charge at 175kw/h, so for a 58kwh battery, it's really not more than a few minutes to give me a 100 mile range (it's a bit longer for a full charge as it slows down towards the end).

 

I got it because cost wise, it works out well in comparison to the options I had at the time.

 

Want to try the 5N. That looks fun!

[mab01uk]

Volkswagen to lay off thousands of staff, cut salaries and close three car factories in Germany amid electric car slowdown.
"Volkswagen plans to shut at least three factories, lay off tens of thousands of its workforce and introduce further cost-cutting measures in Germany as part of a deeper-than-expected overhaul to the business, the company's works council head said on Monday.
Europe's biggest car maker has been negotiating for weeks with unions over intentions to adjust its operations and slash costs as the manufacturer responds to headwinds in the motor industry.
A slowdown in uptake of electric vehicles and the emerging popularity of cheaper Chinese brands in Europe has forced the German powerhouse to consider factory closures on home soil for the first time."
https://www.thisismo...es-Germany.html

 

[humph]

Volkswagen to lay off thousands of staff, cut salaries and close three car factories in Germany amid electric car slowdown.
"Volkswagen plans to shut at least three factories, lay off tens of thousands of its workforce and introduce further cost-cutting measures in Germany as part of a deeper-than-expected overhaul to the business, the company's works council head said on Monday.
Europe's biggest car maker has been negotiating for weeks with unions over intentions to adjust its operations and slash costs as the manufacturer responds to headwinds in the motor industry.
A slowdown in uptake of electric vehicles and the emerging popularity of cheaper Chinese brands in Europe has forced the German powerhouse to consider factory closures on home soil for the first time."
https://www.thisismo...es-Germany.html

 

So the Daily Mail who print dozens of anti EV stories based on long disproven evidence take the “due to EV sales slowdown” line. Fact is that rising interest rates and economic conditions have seen a drop off in demand for all new car sales everywhere. Meanwhile EV market share is growing.  Couple this with the fact that the legacy euro manufacturers have been slow in their EV adoption, and have until recently been offering sub standard products compared to pacific rim and asian manufacturers. This is about so much more than EVs but the Daily Mail continue to print their FUD relentlessly. Oh and lets not forget the continuing VW reputation damage since the diesel gate scandal and reliability issues.  It a real shame but once VW recognise their recent failing they’ll recover.
 

Edited by humph, 28 October 2024 - 08:01 PM.

[mab01uk]

Time will tell, so it will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few years.

 

Check out the List Price followed by the 3-year resale values from What Car? in link below.....

 

Choosing an electric car can slash your running costs, but some models will still make you feel the pinch because of how much value they lose...

https://www.whatcar....ric-cars/n24549

Edited by mab01uk, 28 October 2024 - 11:20 PM.

[humph]

Flawed logic in the calcs of that article in my opinion, and I’ve no doubt that this is also true of the ICE car list too. They calculate price drop against list price to get some pretty big drop figures. But if you look below the blurb for each car there’s a box that tells you what you can pick up the car for new. Further click the info button and you’ll get a target price and again the cheapest they’ve found a new car for, some big savings. These prices are what you’re more likely to pay when you buy the car, so if you compare that to the 3 year resale figure their argument falls apart.  Interesting cars in the top 10 though, 5 of them are Stellantis cars all base on the same drive train, and they’re all brands who’s ICE cars don’t have the best residuals either. Oh and of course the leave which is the Sinclair Spectrum of EVs these days and should have been discontinued ages ago.  There’s a link at the top of the article too for the 10 least depreciating EVs, now some of these are top end cars, but many aren’t and retain 51-64%. It’s just the difference between good and not so good cars whether they be EV or ICE.

 

it will be interesting to see how things go over the next few years technology improves. There is a lot of poor product from ill prepared major manufacturers out there at the moment. The car market will change, but fuel might not be the biggest change, as we’re into another sea change in manufacturers like when the Japanese arrived big style. 

Edited by humph, 29 October 2024 - 12:15 AM.

[Bobbins]

You can’t come on here Humph with such reasoned and sensible comment about EVs, it’s just not allowed you know.

I’m going to start parking my 4 year old EV further away from my house and garage, probably on the road well away from the Mini (and other toys). It’s now on 98,000 miles and I’m concerned by inferences from the Daily Wail etc that it’ll likely self ignite when it gets to 100,000 miles and cause untold damage, burn for days and need some sort of tank installing to put the fire out. It could be good timing with bonfire night coming though.
Probably wasn’t a great purchase decision though, all the savings I’ve made on fuel since I bought it have been frittered away rebuilding the Mini, whatever was I thinking.

[PoolGuy]

Hopefully the upcoming EV ved will also help weed

out the people who are driving EV’s for tax reasons rather than the claimed eco benefits. Yes, that’s those of you who don’t keep them long enough to offset the production co2 numbers.

[Bobbins]

Hopefully the upcoming EV ved will also help weed
out the people who are driving EV’s for tax reasons rather than the claimed eco benefits. Yes, that’s those of you who don’t keep them long enough to offset the production co2 numbers.

How long do you think that is, time or mileage wise?

[PoolGuy]

Well that depends on your agenda, you can find an answer to suit whichever side of the ev fence that you sit on. There are lots of variables based around the manufacturers production methods, end users energy supply, usage. My understanding is that keeping an ev for less than three years isn’t good for anyone though, unless they can charge it with 100% renewable energy. 

[johnv]

I think we should stop making cars altogether for at least a year 

Where are they all going? They don't breakdown or rust anymore, they last for decades. We run a 64 plate (10 year old) bog standard Clio we bought new and it still drives like it just came out of the showroom. Nothing's ever gone wrong with it.