262 replies to this topic

[DeadSquare]

With all due respect, I didn't blame the car.

 

We set off with a full charge on Saturday to a dinner near Marlborough.  We were unable to get close enough to a supply to charge overnight, but used a 13 amp top up over breakfast.

 

The problem was a road closure on the way back to Gloucester and the detour.

 

We passed several filling stations where we could have replenished petrol / diesel, but the three places we tried for a bit of charge in Gloucester were in use

 

The shivering trip was another detour, as we had to buy a tyre after pot hole damage, when the green gunge didn't work, and we had to eked out the charge.

 

There is nothing actually wrong with electricity propelling a car, it is just much more difficult to recover the situation when the planned journey gets a spanner in the works and you need to get somewhere.

[Bobbins]

I've given up responding to this thread, but this post needs a response.

As someone who's been running an EV for 18 months plus, in a household where all daily cars are EVs, there is no excuse for either of the complaints in points 1 & 2, both are user error not a failure of the car.

If he’d run out of petrol/diesel 3 miles from home, would you have blamed the car? Absolutely not you’d be saying your mate was daft for ignoring his fuel gauge, why is it any different in an EV? Running out of charge is just poor planning on the user's behalf, no excuses. There are dozens of route planners that are very accurate & will route you around chargers on you route, so there’s no excuse being caught anywhere in the country with no charge.

Point 2 is just pointless as climate control, if set up correctly, has little to no effect on EV range. The argument re cold weather and air con affecting range, is a bit of a nonstarter for me, as both affect the range of your petrol/diesel car in just the same way, but the naysayers never acknowledge that. I’ve had numerous cars that when the aircon was switched on power & mileage dropped considerably, it’s just physics.

The trouble is Humph that numpties shouldn’t be let loose with anything involving technology. I’ve been running an EV for 4 years / 90,000 miles and haven’t yet run out of charge, plus turning off the climate doesn’t make much difference to range, in fact it can on occasion actually improve range if it helps the cooling of the battery. Don’t tell the nay-sayers though because it’s not a good story!

[mab01uk]

 

[Bobbins]

For that chart to have any meaning you need the estimated life of the battery as well.

[PoolGuy]

For that chart to have any meaning you need the estimated life of the battery as well.

That’s something that the manufacturers are being extremely cagey about.

[stuart bowes]

so basically the 2nd hand market on EV's is totally pointless then

 

mind you we live in a hire purchase world now anyway I guess, no-one truly owns a car any more they just pay every month for the privilege of borrowing it 

 

I refuse to join that movement, I spend over about 5 or 6 years what these people pay out in 1 year

 

I get about 20mpg in my volvo but I'm still saving money

Edited by stuart bowes, 01 May 2024 - 08:46 PM.

[Bobbins]

For that chart to have any meaning you need the estimated life of the battery as well.

That’s something that the manufacturers are being extremely cagey about.

Estimated 300,000 to 500,000 miles for the battery in my daily driver EV, that’s 5p/mile based on the lower end estimate.

The fact that I’m saving over 25p per mile just in fuel compared to Stuart’s Volvo means it’s a no brainer, and after 60,000 miles I’ll have saved enough to buy a new battery!

I’ve done 90,000 miles and it’s not had a service yet, that’s another cost I’ve not had to worry about. Compared to my previous 45mpg ICE car I’ve so far saved over £7000 in “fuel” and I guess around £3000 in servicing. I’m getting better mileage out of tyres as well, 50,000 miles out of my last set which to be honest is the opposite to what I was expecting.

I’m not anti-ICE in any way, quite the opposite and a total petrol head. But I’m open minded about what I need as a daily driver, much like a steam railway enthusiast isn’t going to get all angsty if their daily commute is on a modern electrified railway. It’s just the reality of life.

The savings are paying quite nicely for my Mini rebuild!

[stuart bowes]

I suppose the mileage would depend on your useage,.. in my case I do around 6000p/a. so that 25p is £1500 over a whole year

 

when compared with the current subject of replacing the battery ranging from 10 to 20 grand, you're looking at 6 to 13 years of saving up to make the difference pay off.  not to mention of course how much did the car cost in the first place (20-30 grand?) or how much does it cost in rental

 

granted this is all something of an over-simplication when there are other factors involved.. but that was the angle I was looking at just as a point to note

 

I'm not anti battery either, but there are a number of considerations, there is no simple case of one better than the other, it's a mixed bag of pros and cons I guess

Edited by stuart bowes, 01 May 2024 - 10:20 PM.

[Bobbins]

The reality is that as the market develops vehicles will have faulty cells rather than complete batteries replaced, the cost falling dramatically.
There’s also value in the battery being removed.

[stuart bowes]

well that will help for sure, when that does happen, presumably you would still have the cost of taking it somewhere and having it done by a specialist, but hopefully they would make it a simple modular design so it could be a quick job

 

until that becomes reality though we can only make comparisons as things are currently of course

[PoolGuy]

How about the cost from start to finish 3 years, 5 years? It’s easy to cherry pick the benefits both pro and anti EV.

[Bobbins]

Give me another 12 months and I’ll report back!

[PoolGuy]

The reality is that as the market develops vehicles will have faulty cells rather than complete batteries replaced, 

Do you think the market will continue to develop though? Manufacturers are offloading their EV brands, looking at other fuel sources. That doesn’t bode well for the expansion of the EV market.

[Bobbins]

It will, but legacy auto makers may not be carried along with it. Without a decent charging network consumer demand will falter leaving development and sales growth to the Chinese, and unless the western world companies have a serious alternative plan they can get to market quickly they’ll be consumed by the offerings from China.

In the UK the government has bought the ICE/hybrid manufacturers some time by moving the goal posts but without an alternative on the table they’ll be dead anyway.

[mab01uk]

"Profits at the German auto giant Mercedes plunged on Friday as sales of its new range of electric vehicles (EVs) went into freefall."

Based on the above photo I wonder why?   

Heads should roll over the electric car fiasco:-
"Profits at the German auto giant Mercedes plunged on Friday as sales of its slick new range of electric vehicles (EVs) went into freefall. Porsche abandoned its sales targets for battery-powered cars amid waning demand from customers. Ford is losing nearly $50,000 (£39,000) on every EV it sells, while Tesla’s profits dropped 45pc. Meanwhile, battery manufacturers such as Germany’s Varta are getting wiped out."
https://www.telegrap...ric-car-fiasco/

Edited by mab01uk, 28 August 2024 - 04:26 PM.