262 replies to this topic

[Shooter63]

I've got to say I'm not overly keen on catching a bus in London at the moment.

Shooter

 

An Optare Metrodecker 1050 'Zero Emission' bus burst into flames in Wimbledon, South West London, during rush hour this morning while operating route 200 from Mitcham to Raynes Park.
The 'Zero Emission' Lithium Electric Bus batteries pictured below, seemed to be far exceeding the permitted emission levels in the newly expanded London ULEZ Zone today....


Two Optare Metrodecker 1050 London electric buses were also involved in a major fire at the Potters Bar bus garage in Hertfordshire on May 22, 2022 which destroyed a total of six buses...

Excellent links mab01uk, I knew I could rely on you to dig the dirt. Not wishing to scare monger but I hope those buses have a manual overide to unlock the doors, I would hate to think of the consequences if this happened to a full bus and the driver didn't notice immediately.
I only picked this storey up on TV at lunch time at work as a news flash which came up straight after a section about how regulation is needed on E scooters after the tragic death of the young girl who died in a house fire started when the battery exploded. I think a bit more regulation is needed around really.

Shooter

[Mini Manannán]

Hertz are binning their dirty electric cars: https://arstechnica....h-repair-costs/

[mab01uk]

"Meanwhile, a second London bus burst into flames this morning, completely destroying it less than 24 hours after the Wimbledon incident.
The hybrid vehicle caught fire in North Woolwich, East London, just before 7am today - with onlookers shouting 'what the f***' as they were urged to 'move back, get back'. The bus involved in today's blaze was an Alexander Dennis Enviro400 hybrid that runs on diesel and electricity, with about 900 in use across 78 routes in London.
It comes as Mr Khan faced calls to launch a 'full and urgent investigation' into the Wimbledon double decker explosion as he ploughs ahead with his stated ambition to make the capital's entire bus fleet 'zero-emission' by 2034.
But yesterday's incident was just the latest example of safety faults with electric vehicles – which were the fastest growing cause of fires in the capital last year, according to the London Fire Brigade. In 2023 there were 150 e-bike fires in London, along with 28 e-scooter fires, which was 53 per cent more than in 2022."

 

[mab01uk]

Electric cars WILL get cheaper in 2024 with a 'price war' set to develop....
Experts believe car makers will need to slash their EV prices to compete,
Arrival of new - cheaper - Chinese brands could recalibrate electric car pricing,
Introduction of the ZEV mandate will also force manufacturers to sell more EVs.
https://www.thisismo...et-develop.html

 

[mab01uk]

A third electric bus has caught fire at a depot in Putney - the third to burst into flames this month in London.
Footage posted online on Wednesday shows the bus burning inside Putney Bus Garage. Go Ahead said that a precautionary check of around 380 electric buses is now taking place to make sure they are safe....

 

Edited by mab01uk, 25 January 2024 - 11:13 PM.

[Steam]

How many electric buses will they need to aquire to offset the emmisions from 3 bus fires?

[PoolGuy]

There's a chap on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@GeoffBuysCars who did a run from JOG-LE in a diesel BMW his pal did the same journey in a Porsche Taycan, the results were that fuel cost, diesel £122, electricity cost £259 (5hours 49mins charging), the Taycan took 9hrs 23mins longer to do the journey. Not exactly a scientific experiment but interesting none the less.

[Spider]

Late to the party - as usual !  I've read through some of this thread and there's some interesting information and cross section of experiences.

 

For me, if I take a couple of steps back from the whole 'EV' debate and look at the bigger picture that driving it, I can't help but see it as I have for a very long time now, that is the sham that's driving it - a smaller environmental footprint. Where I'm coming from here is if we all looked at the things in our lives and world that had the biggest 'dirtiest' footprints, they to me would be where to start with cleaning up the world. There seems to me to be a huge disproportionate amount of money being spent world wide on one of the smaller footprints and overall, the technology isn't as clean as promoted. Sure, every bit helps, but with this looming deadline, I think the focus here and now should be elsewhere. There's bigger footprint infrastructure and vehicles that simply can't be converted to EV type technology that way overshadow any real difference the world might make by switching to EV cars.

 

Coming back to cars, I think somewhere down the track, EVs will be the way of the future, but the current battery technology isn't remotely there nor the means of charging them, by what ever means. Here in Australia, I can see that in the near future, when ICE vehicles are no longer made, we'll be left out in the cold. We have a huge land with massive distances between towns (where one would place charging stations), beyond the range of many EVs. They are building charging stations across the country, while these do have solar panels, they actually rely on diesel generators for the bulk of their supply

Coming back to the here and now. one lady's experience of driving an EV here not only took her 3 hours longer, but also well out of pocket when compared to ICE running costs - $210 in charging + 3 hours added to the journey time for EV compared to $140 in petrol for the same drive;-

 

https://www.dailymai...nsive-slow.html

 

There's also many car parks here in Australia, particularly underground, covered and those in the city that refuse point blank to allow EVs to enter on safety grounds as when one catches fire they can't be put out and place the rest of the car park at risk as well as their building.

 

Has the bubble burst ?  

Probably not, but this current, ill-thoughtout current rash of EVs is probably doing more damage for that cause than is resolving.

Batteries aren't the answer, I believe Hydrogen is, though, like batteries, that technology isn't there yet.

 

[Steam]

Other points to consider here in Aus are the times to travel. As Spider states this is a large country and if you go outback you are flat out finding decent fuel let alone a cherging point.
The closest major city to me is a 4+ hour drive one way. I can do it in a day currently but with an ev I would have to find accomodation overnight because of the need to charge. And an outback holiday would be impossible.
The irony is that unless people want and use charging stations they will not be installed but people will not go to places that do not have them, catch 22.

Edited by Steam, 29 January 2024 - 01:08 AM.

[68+86auto]

I do 750km trips one way in a day. One end wouldn't be an issue but along the way I am not aware of any charging points. Stopping to charge would also mean I am delayed and would end up driving in darkness when Kangaroos are a big hazard. The other end has one single Tesla charger in the town which was installed years ago. Then there's the fact that most of the residents of that town are either off grid with systems that won't run an EV charger or even if they are on grid they can't afford an EV either. Until EVs can last as long as ICE vehicles and can be purchased used cheaply then they won't be a viable option for many people. That might actually be how they "improve" the environment with forcing the use of EVs, if people can't actually afford them then there will be less vehicles on the road.


My family has used renewable energy and recycled decades before it was popular yet I don't see any of this being able to replace ICE equipment anytime soon. Technically batteries/electric can replace ICEs but it isn't cost effective or practical.

Edited by 68+86auto, 29 January 2024 - 02:34 AM.

[Steam]

And as I have stated previously EVs will not change the enviroment while jets, aeroplanes and ships continue to use vast amounts of fossil fuel not to mention the power stations to support all the evs.

[Spider]

It seems things with Hydrogen are further along than I thought earlier. Japan is have a major transition towards it over the next few years;-

https://www.mfat.gov...-november-2023/

" What are Japan's focus areas for hydrogen ?

    Hydrogen supply (hydrogen production, construction of hydrogen supply chain)
    Decarbonised power generation
    Fuel cells
    Direct use of hydrogen (decarbonised steel, decarbonised chemicals, hydrogen-fuelled vessels)
    Utilisation of hydrogen compounds (fuel ammonia, carbon recycling products) "

 

[PoolGuy]

How much of the climate change (just assume that it’s a thing) is a result of human life rather than what would happen naturally? Is all this carbon neutral stuff complete ballcocks? 
 

The other week there was a Sky tv van in the local shopping centre boasting about their carbon neutral tv, the van had its diesel engine ticking over for over an hour; well done Sky. And don’t get me started on patio heathers.

[Designer]

I see that BMW have produced a combined Hydrogen/Electric combination X5. The problem there though is where do you refuel with Hydrogen, but then surely installing the infrastructure for that would be a lot easier. Instead of petrol/diesel carrying tankers on the road we would have hydrogen tankers.

[Spider]

How much of the climate change (just assume that it’s a thing) is a result of human life rather than what would happen naturally? Is all this carbon neutral stuff complete ballcocks?

 

I wasn't going to go there, but since you've opened that door,,,,,,

Personally, yes, Climate change is real and happening. Best sit down at this juncture. The harsh truth of it though is that it's been going on for the past 4-1/2 billion years. It's arrogant and stupid to think that in the 2 seconds humans have been on Earth that the climate would 'stabalise' just to suit us.

The Earth's atmosphere only started to become Oxygenated less than 1 billion years ago, but that didn't really rise to the point where it could sustain the type of life forms that we are more familiar with, until about 500 million years ago. These levels in that time to now haven't been stable and have in fact been dropping for the past approx 150 - 200 million years. Put another way, with a reduction in Oxygen in the atmosphere means as a percentage, the other gases - including CO₂ - increase, when in fact the actual quantities haven't changed that much.

I also am sure that as humans and our industrial development must have had an impact on the climate, however, I am also in no doubt that the claims being made on just how much are exaggerated. 

Ask one of the climate protest 'people' on what effect the shift in the Earth's magnet poles will have on the climate and they'll not understand what that has to do with it. Fact: The magnetic poles have been stable (as stable as they get) for the past 250 000 + years but in the past 14 years (off hand) the Magnetic North Pole has been racing off, it was in Canada but is now in Siberia. Every so often, the poles do swap. Sometimes this has been fast, others it has taken 50 000 + years.

The Earth's magnetism is what stops us from being 'nuked' by the Sun. It is at it's most effective at doing this when the poles are perpendicular to the Sun. When one pol faces the Sun, one usual effect of that is an Ice Age. I'd say that's climate change and a wee bit more than the 2 - 3 degrees the protesters are carrying on about. So, what's the link between our tail pipes & electricity generation and the Earth's magnetic field ?

Likewise, throughout the Earth's history, global temps at times have been much higher than today.

Climate change is coming (is happening), emissions or not.