9 replies to this topic

[mab01uk]

A revisit of an an old rivalry between two small sporty Brits: the iconic Mini Cooper and the lessser-spotted Imp-based Sunbeam Stiletto. Which is the better option as a classic today?
Words: Nigel Clark  Images: Matt Woods
"In the early 1960s, if a well-heeled youngster wanted a new set of wheels that was a bit flash without being too expensive, the answer usually came in the shape of a small sports car, probably a Sprite or Midget. Then BMC teamed up with F1 racer John Cooper and changed everything.
When Cooper worked his magic by tweaking Issigonis’ cleverly packaged front wheel drive runabout, a whole new class of performance car was created overnight. The launch of the Mini Cooper in 1961 gave the world a car that matched a sports car’s straight line performance but, inheriting the exceptional handling of the basic Mini, could easily beat the sports cars through the bends. The fact that the Cooper also offered four seats was another benefit, though maybe not uppermost in the minds of young buyers. Arguably the Mini Cooper’s success created the market for the hot hatchbacks that emerged in the following decades.
The Rootes Group wasn’t about to sit back and miss out on a slice of this new-found action. Having launched the Hillman Imp as a Mini rival in 1963, three years later an Imp Sport hit the market followed by the Stiletto, badge engineered under Rootes performance brand of Sunbeam.
So by the mid-1960s the aspiring buyer in search of a sporty saloon had a choice between BMC and Rootes products. Contemporary sales figures suggest the Mini won the contest hands down but is that really a fair representation of the Imp’s capability? Today we’re comparing a Mini Cooper Mk1 and a Series 1 Sunbeam Stiletto. Let’s find out how these rivals fare some five decades later."
More here:-
https://classicsworl...nbeam-stiletto/

 

[stuart bowes]

At the risk of being flogged publically and having dung flung at my naked body as i'm paraded through the streets to the sound of "SHAME! SHAME"  ...

 

the Stilleto / Imp is a much better looking car

 

*ducks for cover

 

or, at least, when comparing the two in that picture, anyway.  there's obviously tatty ones and nice ones in each case

 

rare as rocking horse do now though of course which adds to the appeal as well

Edited by stuart bowes, 14 January 2023 - 08:42 PM.

[Gaz66]

I still fancy a well tuned pimp.
They rev like demons when tuned and I believe the 10k+ revvers had to have a block strengthening kit fitted to keep the engine together.

[Cooperman]

Although i never owned one, I have driven and rallied in Imps and I always liked them. They were nice to drive and vrey 'driver-friendly'.

The one to have was the 998 Rally Imp/Stiletto/Chamois.

The early cars had some issues with their water pumps, which would leak, then the engine would overheat and the head gasket would fail. I did several rebuilds after that had happened to friends cars and the head had to be skimmed as it was an all-alloy engine. In terms of road-holding, they were quite good and the handling was excellent, especially if the suspension had been improved by putting a bit of negative camber on the front wheels and fitting stiffer dampers. It was a very different technique from the Mini and more like driving a Porsche 911 with 'in slow - out fast' being the way to go. 

A 998 in standard for would give a 0 - 60 time in the region of 13 seconds, which was on a par with a 970 Cooper 'S' and max speed with standard gearing was around 90 mph.

You could get the engine out to around 1140 cc and with twin 38DCOE Webers it was then a real flyer. There was a front disc brake conversion homologated in Group 2.

A well-driven Imp was really competitive, as drivers like Colin Malkin and Rosemary Smith proved. When I had my 998 Cooper, in 1964 - '65 I did an autotest on grass and my friend in his 998 Chamois beat me. It was on grass which was slightly damp and when my Cooper was sitting there spinning its wheels, his Chamois just dug in and got traction.

 

One thing which gets mentioned a lot in modern comments about the 998 Cooper are the 7" disc brakes. Now I rallied mine competitively with the 7" discs and a well-improved engine. I used DS11 brake pads and Girling Amber brake fluid and the brakes were fine. Brake fade was never an issue and the only problem was the old DS11 race pads were only at their best when hot, although they did work fine in normal driving. They just used to need replacing quite often. The big thing was that it was not necessary to keep on adjusting the brakes by getting underneath with the 1/4" square spanner several times during a rally. But with a Mini, who needs good brakes - you don't need to slow down much for corners  .

[bpirie1000]

Both fighting the dreaded rust.

Suppose it all comes down to which can realistically be kept on the roads within a given budget these days. Not just the running costs but the congestion and the tax and the fuel costs and the endless government incentives to reduce peoples enjoyment in life...

But i shall stick to my mini......

[mab01uk]

There have been some successful hybrid Imp engined Mini racers over the years, built to to challenge the dominant Imps in the up to 1000cc Special Saloon class....but I don't think anyone ever put a Mini engine/gearbox in the back (or front) of an Imp!  


John Homewood's Imp leads Ginger Marshall's Imp powered Mini Clubman Estate


Ginger Marshall's Imp engine on a Mini gearbox.


Monty Guildford's Imp engine on a Mini gearbox (1973). The exhaust exited out of the nearside A panel.

https://www.theminif...mini/?p=3582323

 

The engine was built and tuned by George Bevan but the gearbox was designed by Monty and built by Peter Wise of Goodland Engineering of Tonbridge Kent. The crankshaft was a one off.

Edited by mab01uk, 16 January 2023 - 04:52 PM.

[mab01uk]

Minis Vs. Imps HSCC Historic Touring Cars Cadwell 2013.
On-board footage from Tim Harber, Mini 71, in the under 1300cc race at the HSCC Wolds Trophy Meeting at Cadwell Park.

 

Edited by mab01uk, 16 January 2023 - 11:21 PM.

[DeadSquare]

I know that this is not really to the point of this post, but an erstwhile girlfriend had an Imp, and the passenger seat was definitely superior to a Mini ...................REDACTED.

[mab01uk]

Mini V Imp - Popular Motoring 1974:-

https://www.theminif...-motoring-1974/

Edited by mab01uk, 17 January 2023 - 07:58 PM.

[mab01uk]

Bill McGovern and the Bevan Imp:-
http://www.imps4ever...aces/bevan.html