62 replies to this topic

[Shooter63]

This have been kicking about for a couple of years now, the kit car scene were the first to notice this change and you can thank the EU for this, although I'm pretty sure in this particular case DVLA have got it wrong, but the guy now has the problem of challenging them in a court of law and they ain't going to want to admit they are wrong. If he wants to keep the car then it needs an IVA test and while it's not impossible to get a mini through it would be bloody hard. What most kit builders do is get through the IVA then throw all stupid bits away or sell them on to the next guy who's building a kit.
Unfortunately gone are the days of doing what you like, there are rumours that minisprint conversions are in the same league ( definitely monocoque changes there) space frame cars should have always been subject to IVA but people got away with it. Personally I would have MOT'd the car and got an engineers report done before going to the DVLA, that way he had certified ammo with him.

Shooter

[Maccmike8]

I assume the mot would have been a problem with there no longer being an engine there and instead an electric motor. The mot person would have been obliged to put emission numbers in but obviously wouldnt have been able too?

[stuart bowes]

I wonder if there's some way to calculate the emissions made by the power station per kw/h while it was being charged up.. 

Edited by stuart bowes, 29 August 2022 - 04:14 PM.

[mk1coopers]

This will almost certainly get overturned, nothing to get worried about imo. Good clickbait though.

Unfortunately not clickbait, there’s been a build thread on the MK1 forum, the conversion is fully reversible and done to an excellent standard, currently the car (not mine) is off the road, we all know Minis and the IVA don’t play nicely. 
 

It does need to be sorted out though, when the initial inspection was done the inspector said it was really well done, the problem has been with someone further along the chain..

[bitsilly]

Roughly works like this?pick a fight and stand back.We have big lawyers and money,so fight us.You may even win in which case we will concede defeat and there is now a clear(er) line drawn in the sand.Or something like that.
Is there pictures of this hole?Are there more substantial changes that are not publicised.Was he trying to get a previously dormant registration resurrected?More to this I think.Steve..
Dinitrol used to offer a chart showing where to drill holes and supplied bungs to close them with(other rustproofers did the same)SVA territory?

[bitsilly]

Hi all,
I’m the unfortunate owner of the car.
I would encourage you to read the letter in full boring as it is.
That should show that I was never trying to a revive a previously dormant reg live, I had a perfectly good one.
There is no more to this case.
I have pictures of all holes, there are no other mods I am keeping secret.
The id was confiscated.
The first reason was a hole in the boot lid, when I contested that they said it was actually holes drilled in the boot. I have asked for the report that they are basing this on, so far with no luck but I should be able to get it using freedom of info act.
I told someone today that if I spread the word of this they will simply not believe me, you have just proven me correct.

[Maccmike8]

Hi all,
I’m the unfortunate owner of the car.
I would encourage you to read the letter in full boring as it is.
That should show that I was never trying to a revive a previously dormant reg live, I had a perfectly good one.
There is no more to this case.
I have pictures of all holes, there are no other mods I am keeping secret.
The id was confiscated.
The first reason was a hole in the boot lid, when I contested that they said it was actually holes drilled in the boot. I have asked for the report that they are basing this on, so far with no luck but I should be able to get it using freedom of info act.
I told someone today that if I spread the word of this they will simply not believe me, you have just proven me correct.

 

I completely believe you. Its crazy. I just cannot understand their logic. I hope you get a good outcome.

[sonscar]

I am certainly not saying I do not believe you.I am curious as to why the dvsa became involved,was it when you applied to change the fuel type?Apply for historic tax,announce that major modifications had been done?For us knowledge is useful to help prevent us falling foul.Hope you prevail,Steve..

[KTS]

 

This will almost certainly get overturned, nothing to get worried about imo. Good clickbait though.

Unfortunately not clickbait, there’s been a build thread on the MK1 forum, the conversion is fully reversible and done to an excellent standard, currently the car (not mine) is off the road, we all know Minis and the IVA don’t play nicely. 
 

It does need to be sorted out though, when the initial inspection was done the inspector said it was really well done, the problem has been with someone further along the chain..

 

 

I imagine the clickbait comment was aimed at the opening comments on this thread, and the idea that somehow one employee at DVLA is responsible for defining how the entire organisation will henceforth operate

[bitsilly]

I am certainly not saying I do not believe you.I am curious as to why the dvsa became involved,was it when you applied to change the fuel type?Apply for historic tax,announce that major modifications had been done?For us knowledge is useful to help prevent us falling foul.Hope you prevail,Steve..

[PoolGuy]

 

I imagine the clickbait comment was aimed at the opening comments on this thread, and the idea that somehow one employee at DVLA is responsible for defining how the entire organisation will henceforth operate

 

Correct. I'm in no way doubting the story. But I fully expect it to be a non issue for classic car owners and the like. Hopefully someone like Hagerty or the HCVA will pick up on it.

[bitsilly]

Steve
You have to read the letter.
I already had tax and mot free status.
I couldn’t announce major mods as I hadn’t done any as per their rules.
They became involved when I told them that I had ditched the engine and fitted a motor.
Against all previous accepted measures they moved from ‘engine change’ to ‘this is beyond our comprehension so let’s call them classics ‘kit cars’ from here on and move those goal posts.
And while we are at it let us call drilled holes ‘major chassis or monocoque modifications’ and if an old car has them then feck the reasons for all this carbon emissions reduction *******, make em weigh it in! If they can afford a classic Ev conversion then they should buy one of them American Tesla things.

I WOULD LOVE TO SAY I AM TAKING THE PEE BUT THIS NONSENSE IS REAL.

[beardylondon]

Sorry I’ve not read the letter, but I hope you get it sorted.

but it begs the question, how do all the companies that do this for a living get round this and/or have not been subject to this amount of ball ache? as we all know there’s that surf blue mini kicking around, plus all the others…

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

https://www.londonelectriccars.com/

And there’s that awful Paul Smith one too, the list is endless!

[Lowestoftmodder]

I think you’ve been very unlucky

I’m thinking the desk jockey at DVSA made a mistake but rather then have this on their record they are doubling down.
DVSA and DVLA etc should take a “pragmatic approach”. I highly recommend getting some advice from an inspector working for DVSA/vosa who’s job it is to actually interpret the rules in the real world away from the computer screen.

This should be resolved without the need for an Iva. It’s true that you cannot just weld up holes but you could decide to replace/repair the whole panel section with a heritage approved repair pane fitted at the original joins just like factory, Just saying..

There’s also regs in place to allow classic vehicles to upgrade to more environmentally friendly standards giving more scope to the normal points system. I’ll post some information/links when I can.

This needs to go above the heads of those who’ve taken this action. Just a note there was a guy on here years ago who was hounded out of the mini scene for bringing these problems to the attention of the miniforum so I completely understand your reluctance and trepidation coming on here.
Times have changed though and hopefully you will get good support

Don’t allow the DVLA or DVSA to use you as a case study or free advertisement online like they did with Andy Saunders.

They read these threads

Edited by Lowestoftmodder, 29 August 2022 - 09:22 PM.

[stuart bowes]

it begs the question, how do all the companies that do this for a living get round this and/or have not been subject to this amount of ball ache

 

I've been pondering that one as well, also it was questioned a number of times on the original Mk1 forum post

 

I think, just to play devils advocate for a moment, the DVLA must have some difficult calls to make, we have to accept firstly they are not there to support car enthusiasts, they're there to keep the roads safe and on that basis we're forced to accept that they will from time to time deny registration to cars that they think are unsafe in some way

 

now obviously there are people like Bitsilly who by all accounts did a smashing job and made a totally sound car, but there's also people who haven't the foggiest idea how to do things properly and cut'n'shut some absolute monstrosities 

 

so, how do you tell one from the other.  There's probably some DVLA guys who take the time to actually look at the work in detail and decide on a case by case basis, and others who think, well, one man in a shed knocked this up, it's probably gonna kill someone at some point, all I need is one or two silly excuses to block it and who are they to argue with me, my word is final

 

But when it comes to a professional company, with 'proper' garage and fully qualified welder/fabricators on the payroll, with business insurance that has product liability and professional indemnity.. it's easier to think well that can be signed off because it came out of 'a car factory' as it were

 

Just out of curiosity, what's so difficult about the IVA process when it comes to minis then anyway, surely the things they want to see are there for a good reason? I say that without any background knowledge on the topic though, maybe there are parts that are just too difficult for a mini to get through for some reason..  Having got as far with it as you have, giving up on it would be a real shame, must be better to take the time to do whatever additional things are required and jump through the hoops

 

(finally I did also see your post about reasons for taking a step back for a while and I wish you all the best with that)

Edited by stuart bowes, 29 August 2022 - 09:46 PM.