28 replies to this topic

[mvahora]

working on my mini at the moment and have installed 13x7 deep dish minilights. Its going to be used for Fast road. Basic specs are 1310cc, 285 cam. Twin HS4 su's. I'm now considering upgrading the front and rear geometry & suspension systems. I've currently got Monroe GAS shocks installed on the front. 

 

What kind of figures should i be trying to achieve for castor, camber & toe??

 

Also should I consider installing new heavy duty adjustable tie rods, adjustable lower arms, bushes and adjustable hilos or will the stock ones that are in their now be fine?

 

Also should I consider replacing all front and rear subframe bushes with new poly ones?

Edited by mvahora, 15 September 2021 - 08:29 AM.

[Earwax]

Hi mvahora

 

All of the above are possible candidates for upgrades.  It is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' story with no absolute right answers, but with plenty of differing opinions.

 

For my opinion,   and thoughts

 

What tyres... some prefer being more upright?

 

slightly more robust/adjustable tie rods with the minispares soft/hard rubber combo work well.... but more of a safety upgrade

 

If you are thinking adjustable rear camber brackets do some more reading on robust /reinforced ones  .. less sexy but still effective,, the right size shims ( but not adjustable) 

 

Good shocks are nice and can improve ride and handling but make sure your bump stops are up to spec.... ( as a real personal perspective i have a hard enough time telling the difference in 3 or 5 settings , so I seriously dont know if anyone can tell 20 variations (it is like marking one essay at 79 /100 and another at 78/100),,, also know your height /movement 

 

Having 13 x 7s with thin sidewalls looks great but kind of nullifies some of the other suspension mods .

 

I enjoy both 10 inch and 12 inch setups,  but i feel subjectively that the 10s with bigger sidewalls just manage the traction/ ride/ handling equation better.  

 

Enjoy your build , looks like a fun spec engine,,,, others will be along with toe in and out measures etc... i always forget  

[rock1day]

I`m running at standard ride height with solid floor / tower subframe mounts and Koni dampers all round. Combined with poly front suspension bushes it has really sharpened up the steering but has increased noise a little. Considering fitting 1.5 degree front negative camber arms and Cooper S 10 inch wheels as my next move. 

[mvahora]

Hi mvahora

 

All of the above are possible candidates for upgrades.  It is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' story with no absolute right answers, but with plenty of differing opinions.

 

For my opinion,   and thoughts

 

What tyres... some prefer being more upright?

 

slightly more robust/adjustable tie rods with the minispares soft/hard rubber combo work well.... but more of a safety upgrade

 

If you are thinking adjustable rear camber brackets do some more reading on robust /reinforced ones  .. less sexy but still effective,, the right size shims ( but not adjustable) 

 

Good shocks are nice and can improve ride and handling but make sure your bump stops are up to spec.... ( as a real personal perspective i have a hard enough time telling the difference in 3 or 5 settings , so I seriously dont know if anyone can tell 20 variations (it is like marking one essay at 79 /100 and another at 78/100),,, also know your height /movement 

 

Having 13 x 7s with thin sidewalls looks great but kind of nullifies some of the other suspension mods .

 

I enjoy both 10 inch and 12 inch setups,  but i feel subjectively that the 10s with bigger sidewalls just manage the traction/ ride/ handling equation better.  

 

Enjoy your build , looks like a fun spec engine,,,, others will be along with toe in and out measures etc... i always forget  

 

thanks mate, 

 

the tires I've ran in the past are 175 50 13. German made Fulda carats. Ill change these to some other brand like nankangs or yokohomas depending on performance, popularity and recommendation. 

 

I'm thinking of heavy-duty adjustable bush-type tie-rods, fixed negative camber bottom arms, adjustable rear camber brackets and new shocks/dampers  I've read that with 13s you shouldn't really have any negative camber. I'm also not too sure if I need to go all out and replace the stock Hilo's, rod ends, ball joints and bumpstops.  Ill get in touch with cooperman for some more info

 

 

My mini project has been sitting for so many years I just want to get this done, but done properly lol. miss driving her. 

Edited by mvahora, 16 September 2021 - 04:29 AM.

[mvahora]

found this thread which helped alot 

 

https://www.theminif...-for-13-wheels/

Edited by mvahora, 16 September 2021 - 03:51 AM.

[rock1day]

I don`t see the point of rear end modifications (camber changes) because I`m trying to reduce the amount of inherent understeer by improving the front grip? 

[Midas Mk1]

I don`t see the point of rear end modifications (camber changes) because I`m trying to reduce the amount of inherent understeer by improving the front grip?

You’d be surprised, a lot.

[Steve220]

I don`t see the point of rear end modifications (camber changes) because I`m trying to reduce the amount of inherent understeer by improving the front grip?

You find me a mini on a standard subframe that is exactly within tolerance. It's like when people buy the 1.5° lower arms.. it's an arbitrary figure as most cars won't be straight. Adjustable suspension components on a mini make it handle like it's truly capable of 👌🏽 As Sam rightly mentions, it makes a massive difference.

[rock1day]

 

I don`t see the point of rear end modifications (camber changes) because I`m trying to reduce the amount of inherent understeer by improving the front grip?

You find me a mini on a standard subframe that is exactly within tolerance. It's like when people buy the 1.5° lower arms.. it's an arbitrary figure as most cars won't be straight. Adjustable suspension components on a mini make it handle like it's truly capable of As Sam rightly mentions, it makes a massive difference.

 

I agree with your view re tolerances on subframes and adjustable camber arms / tie rods being a superior option. However, I`ve had a shed load of bother finding a garage that can even get the steering wheel facing straight ahead after setting my tracking!

[cal844]

I don`t see the point of rear end modifications (camber changes) because I`m trying to reduce the amount of inherent understeer by improving the front grip?

You find me a mini on a standard subframe that is exactly within tolerance. It's like when people buy the 1.5° lower arms.. it's an arbitrary figure as most cars won't be straight. Adjustable suspension components on a mini make it handle like it's truly capable of As Sam rightly mentions, it makes a massive difference.

I agree with your view re tolerances on subframes and adjustable camber arms / tie rods being a superior option. However, I`ve had a shed load of bother finding a garage that can even get the steering wheel facing straight ahead after setting my tracking!

Then they're doing tracking wrong, to be fair it is easy to set the wheel straight once the tracking is set

[Midas Mk1]

I don`t see the point of rear end modifications (camber changes) because I`m trying to reduce the amount of inherent understeer by improving the front grip?

You find me a mini on a standard subframe that is exactly within tolerance. It's like when people buy the 1.5° lower arms.. it's an arbitrary figure as most cars won't be straight. Adjustable suspension components on a mini make it handle like it's truly capable of As Sam rightly mentions, it makes a massive difference.

I agree with your view re tolerances on subframes and adjustable camber arms / tie rods being a superior option. However, I`ve had a shed load of bother finding a garage that can even get the steering wheel facing straight ahead after setting my tracking!

If your competent you can do it yourself, it’s how I learnt, but if their doing toe wrong then it’s seriously one to avoid.
Even if you used toe plates to centre the wheel it’d be a start point.

Find a place that knows what their doing, I got fed up of paying for it so bought turnplates, camber gauges, proper laser toe gauges.

It’s not just on minis, the cars I do a full geo on at work (front caster camber toe, read camber toe), you wouldn’t believe the difference from being ‘in green’ on the gauge to fully even both sides with a minimal thrust angle, drive completely different.

Edited by Midas Mk1, 17 September 2021 - 05:37 PM.

[Steve220]

I set my own suspension using the string method and a camber gauge. It's worth learning to do it, I've done all my cars now 😂

[rock1day]

I set my own suspension using the string method and a camber gauge. It's worth learning to do it, I've done all my cars now

Yes, I`ve seen that done on YouTube-but how did you centre the steering wheel in the straight ahead position?

 

Quite a few people recommend just removing and re-centring the wheel on the spline.

[Cooperman]

 

The rear must havveI don`t see the point of rear end modifications (camber changes) because I`m trying to reduce the amount of inherent understeer by improving the front grip?

You’d be surprised, a lot.

 

Quite right.

 

With a Mini, the rear suspension settings have more effect on the road-holding and handling than small adjustments to the front.

 

The rear must have a small amount of toe-in and zero to very slight negative camber. 

 

To reduce understeer, stiffen up the rear dampers and soften off the fronts a bit until the balance is right. That is assuming the rear geometry has been accurately set-up.

 

With 13" wheels and hence wide tyres, the negative camber should be a bit less than what would be optimum for 10" or  12" wheels in order to maintain tyre contact area. Personally, I would not go more than about 0.5 degrees negative on the front with 175 width tyres. Also setting very little toe-out on the front will improve 'turn-in'. 

 

Some of all this is trial-and-error until you get the settings which best suit your style of driving.

[Steve220]

 

I set my own suspension using the string method and a camber gauge. It's worth learning to do it, I've done all my cars now

Yes, I`ve seen that done on YouTube-but how did you centre the steering wheel in the straight ahead position?

 

Quite a few people recommend just removing and re-centring the wheel on the spline.

 

Removed the left hand grommet in the toeboard, undo the hex bolt on the rack, drop a 5mm allen key into it and turn the rack until it drops down. That's true centre of the rack. Move the steering wheel to match, then set the tracking.