25 replies to this topic

[Elwyn]

Hello

 

1993 L reg SPI Cooper Manual RHD

 

Having taken the flywheel / clutch / pressure plate combo out and having replaced the clutch plate, then reassembled the 3 parts and refitted it.....the car won't start

 

I've checked and tested all sorts of things and had some helpful feedback via The Mini Forum (a separate topic / thread), but it still won't start and everything is now pointing to timing, as many comments mentioned in the first place.

 

Specifically to the timing functionality of the reluctor ring on the flywheel, it's interaction with the crank sensor at TDC and the messages it then sends to the ECU / MEMS to trigger firing.

 

In the Rover Service repair manual for SPI Minis, totalling 482 pages (which is VERY good), pages 174 - 178 (inclusive, by PDF page number counter) describe the process of removing the wok, the flywheel / clutch etc and for their subsequent re-fitting.

 

The same manual describes the function of the gaps in the reluctor ring, the crank sensor, TDC and the ECU MEMS with regards to timing.

 

Where it talks about the reluctor ring / crank sensor / TDC / ECU timing functionality, it refers the reader to the Clutch section.

 

In the clutch section (pages 174 - 178), it makes no reference to the reluctor ring / crankshaft / TDS positioning and alignment that's presumably needed, so it seems to lead to a dead end in terms of information.

 

It basically says, "put it back on and tighten things up"....not quite those words exactly

 

Does anyone know if there's a guide to making sure the right part of the reluctor ring on the flywheel aligns with the crank sensor at TDC as part of refitting the flywheel?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Elwyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elwyn]

And then I've read that the flywheel can only go onto the crankshaft in one position / orientation

If that's the case, it would explain the absence of alignment guidance in the manual

 

There seem to be two directly opposing types of advice / threads / posts

 

1. The flywheel can only go on one way

2. If you change an SPI clutch, you'll have all sorts of flywheel-derived timing issues

 

Both can't be true?!

[sonscar]

Not entirely sure about this but I thought the timing slots were part of the clutch cover?Unsure of this though.Steve..

[viz139]

Sounds like you only replaced the friction plate, if you replaced the pressure plate you must be sure to use an injection specific pressure plate or else the timing may be off. Have you removed the crank sensor and checked it for damage ? Are you sure its not 180 degrees out?

[Bobbins]

If you've stripped the assembly to replace the clutch plate, have you re-assembled everything in EXACTLY the positions they were originally in? The relationship between the clutch centre (which locates on the crankshaft) and the flywheel (which carries the reluctor ring) are absolutely critical, otherwise the crank position information cannot be read by the ecu.

If it is all assembled correctly have you definitely fitted the assembly in the correct orientation on the crank and not 180 deg out?

Edited by Bobbins, 08 August 2021 - 09:07 AM.

[Elwyn]

I replaced the clutch plate only

I reassembled the clutch plate, pressure plate and flywheel in the same alignment

 

Is it possible to put the reassembled plates and flywheel on 180 degrees out?
Doesn't the key way make that impossible?

 

If it is possible, how do you know which of the 2 180 degree opposing positions is correct?

 

is there a guide?

 

TDC and check / align something with something?

 

The crank sensor is new

 

I bought and fitted a new one as part of the diagnostic / ruling things out early stages

[tmsmini]

Anything is possible if you try(force) it hard enough.

This thread is old, but it has a check on the positioning.

https://www.theminif...ket#entry961231

 

There may be another with more detailed info, but I cannot find it at the moment.

Edited by tmsmini, 08 August 2021 - 05:25 PM.

[sonscar]

I think you can fit the flywheel correctly 360 degrees out no1 cylinder has to be firing stroke which is every 2 turns,I think not having worked on SPI.Steve..

Edited by sonscar, 08 August 2021 - 06:25 PM.

[Elwyn]

Thanks all. Flywheel etc must be ok as I finally got the car started again today.

It now starts

But….

It runs very lumpily

And with no foot in the accelerator, it drops to 500 revs, tries to hang on, but splutters and cuts out

There’s a puff of white / grey smoke rising from the inlet manifold too

The inlet manifold has been expertly refurbished

The inlet manifold gasket is new, but it’s been off and on again a couple of times and looks a little out of shape…but the inlet manifold and exhaust manifold are both tightened to the cylinder head studs securely

Any ideas?

Starting to feel like an endless ruddy pain!

[sonscar]

Are the locating rings holding the manifold off slightly?that is if there are any.Steve..

[Elwyn]

They were new too. They went in / on square

[Elwyn]

Locating rings on the inlet manifold
Not on the exhaust manifold
The white / grey smoke and the lumpy running made me suspect an exhaust “leak” at the manifold
Am I barking up the wrong tree?

[sonscar]

Do they fit into the recesses with room to spare?I would fit the manifold without the gasket but with the rings and measure the gap.The clamping pressure on the gasket could be adversely affected if this is too large.Clutching at straws but easy and cheap.
Do you have a code reader?Are the water temp and air temp sensible values?Just a thought or two,Steve..

[MatthewsDad]

When you refer to the inlet manifold gasket do you mean the gasket(s) sitting below the injector body? IIRC there are a couple at least - an intricately shaped one, and a more simple oval one. Not sure whether the white / grey smoke you mention would be caused by a failed gasket in the injector body, but it may account for the rough running.

[Elwyn]

Sorry, I mean the manifold gasket

As  GUG704053MG from Mini Spares

The gasket / spacers in the throttle body are also new