26 replies to this topic

[Tornado99]

The ballast wire may well measure 12v with a Meter but will be less when under load.Calculating the coil current is tricky because it is not turned on all the time.What is the dwell time with this igniter?not as simple as it seems.Steve..

How can a ballast wire with a resistor embedded in it not lower the voltage to my multimeter vs a wire without a resistor ?  Both show the same voltage with ign in the run position. How does adding a load to the ballast line make it drop the volts from battery 12.5 v? 

 

I believe the Ignitor II EI is supposed to have variable dwell capability, varies at different rpm. 

[sonscar]

When the wire to your headlamps has only one strand left it will still measure 12v.Turn on the headlamps and it won't.Static voltages and currents are different to running ones.I am not an electrical expert but some things I have experienced for myself.I have a car with EFI,if I set the dwell over 4ms the coil melts after a short while through over current.The points gap sets the dwell time,how does the igniter do this?,complicated intit,Steve.

[Ethel]

The plumbing analogy holds true.

 

If you connected 2 tanks the water level (which you could measure as head or pressure & equates to voltage) would equalise eventually regardless of how small diameter piping you used. If you put a tap in the middle of that pipe & ran a hose & nozzle from it, the more you opened the tap the farther the water would squirt, but the range would also be limited by the height of the tank(s) & the size of the pipes. 

 

If the pipe to one tank was bigger than the from the tap to the other, it'd start by emptying quicker, but the more the water level got lower than the other tank the faster the fuller tank would  would empty.

[Tornado99]

The plumbing analogy holds true.

 

If you connected 2 tanks the water level (which you could measure as head or pressure & equates to voltage) would equalise eventually regardless of how small diameter piping you used. If you put a tap in the middle of that pipe & ran a hose & nozzle from it, the more you opened the tap the farther the water would squirt, but the range would also be limited by the height of the tank(s) & the size of the pipes. 

 

If the pipe to one tank was bigger than the from the tap to the other, it'd start by emptying quicker, but the more the water level got lower than the other tank the faster the fuller tank would  would empty.

OK I think I made a basic mistake in trying to measure a voltage drop by placing the voltmeter in series with the ballast resistor wire. As I've now come to understand, a voltmeter has a very high internal resistance, so by placing in series, it is effectively making an open circuit, no current flow and no voltage drop. I need to place the meter in parallel to the ballast wire and measure resistance, not volts. So I need to find the other end of the pink/white wire. Or for easier access, according to the wiring diagram, the white wire at fuse #1 should connect to pink/white at the ignition switch....so should be able to hook one multimeter lead to the white line at fuse, other lead to the pink.white at coil....and see resistance across the ballast line...

 

EDIT: And doing the above, I see a nice 1.3 Ohm resistance on the ballast pink/white line.

 

So it appears my FT2 coil, 0.6 Ohm, running with non-ballast, 12v feed line failed with an Ignitor 2 EI. If this is the proper setup for this coil, then it just failed for reasons other than over loading. It is the liquid filled version...so maybe high vibrations contributed. There is an epoxy filled version for better resilience. 

Edited by Tornado99, 25 May 2021 - 04:56 PM.

[cal844]

The plumbing analogy holds true.

If you connected 2 tanks the water level (which you could measure as head or pressure & equates to voltage) would equalise eventually regardless of how small diameter piping you used. If you put a tap in the middle of that pipe & ran a hose & nozzle from it, the more you opened the tap the farther the water would squirt, but the range would also be limited by the height of the tank(s) & the size of the pipes.

If the pipe to one tank was bigger than the from the tap to the other, it'd start by emptying quicker, but the more the water level got lower than the other tank the faster the fuller tank would would empty.

OK I think I made a basic mistake in trying to measure a voltage drop by placing the voltmeter in series with the ballast resistor wire. As I've now come to understand, a voltmeter has a very high internal resistance, so by placing in series, it is effectively making an open circuit, no current flow and no voltage drop. I need to place the meter in parallel to the ballast wire and measure resistance, not volts. So I need to find the other end of the pink/white wire. Or for easier access, according to the wiring diagram, the white wire at fuse #1 should connect to pink/white at the ignition switch....so should be able to hook one multimeter lead to the white line at fuse, other lead to the pink.white at coil....and see resistance across the ballast line...

EDIT: And doing the above, I see a nice 1.3 Ohm resistance on the ballast pink/white line.

So it appears my FT2 coil, 0.6 Ohm, running with non-ballast, 12v feed line failed with an Ignitor 2 EI. If this is the proper setup for this coil, then it just failed for reasons other than over loading. It is the liquid filled version...so maybe high vibrations contributed. There is an epoxy filled version for better resilience.

Ballast wire crimps in about 6 inches into the loom from the white wire, thus making it difficult to get the correct resistance reading.
you will need crimp connectors to remake the connection if you break the factory crimp

Edited by cal844, 25 May 2021 - 05:35 PM.

[Tornado99]

 

 

The plumbing analogy holds true.

If you connected 2 tanks the water level (which you could measure as head or pressure & equates to voltage) would equalise eventually regardless of how small diameter piping you used. If you put a tap in the middle of that pipe & ran a hose & nozzle from it, the more you opened the tap the farther the water would squirt, but the range would also be limited by the height of the tank(s) & the size of the pipes.

If the pipe to one tank was bigger than the from the tap to the other, it'd start by emptying quicker, but the more the water level got lower than the other tank the faster the fuller tank would would empty.

OK I think I made a basic mistake in trying to measure a voltage drop by placing the voltmeter in series with the ballast resistor wire. As I've now come to understand, a voltmeter has a very high internal resistance, so by placing in series, it is effectively making an open circuit, no current flow and no voltage drop. I need to place the meter in parallel to the ballast wire and measure resistance, not volts. So I need to find the other end of the pink/white wire. Or for easier access, according to the wiring diagram, the white wire at fuse #1 should connect to pink/white at the ignition switch....so should be able to hook one multimeter lead to the white line at fuse, other lead to the pink.white at coil....and see resistance across the ballast line...

EDIT: And doing the above, I see a nice 1.3 Ohm resistance on the ballast pink/white line.

So it appears my FT2 coil, 0.6 Ohm, running with non-ballast, 12v feed line failed with an Ignitor 2 EI. If this is the proper setup for this coil, then it just failed for reasons other than over loading. It is the liquid filled version...so maybe high vibrations contributed. There is an epoxy filled version for better resilience.

Ballast wire crimps in about 6 inches into the loom from the white wire, thus making it difficult to get the correct resistance reading.
you will need crimp connectors to remake the connection if you break the factory crimp

 

 Don't  need precise reading if that was what you were meaning....I've shown that my PW wire has the ballast resistor in line....that's what I wanted to know here. 

[sonscar]

The pink wire is the resistor,it is made of a special wire who's name escapes me,Steve..

[Tornado99]

The pink wire is the resistor,it is made of a special wire who's name escapes me,Steve..

Understood. It may be a spiral type wire, like what is used in suppression cables for sparkplugs. There was an old thread on these forums describing a melted/burnt up ballast wire...that that's what seemed to have lots of folks by-passing it...also what lead me to do so. 

 

I've ordered an epoxy filled FT2 0.6 Ohm coil and will put it back on the ballasted line...was working well there previously....until I learn more about the Ingnitor II capabilities. 

[Tornado99]

Found this guide for Ignitor II installation:

 

https://images.carid...nstructions.pdf

 

 

It advises to not run any ballast resistor to the coil for optimum performance and that the Flame Thrower II coil is recommended for optimum performance,but can work with coils above 0.45 Ohm resistance. 

 

It has an alternative installation for keeping the ballast resistance to the coil, and providing the Ignitor II with +12v from ignition via a direct 12-gauge wire to the red lead. My car came to me with the ballast at the coil +ve, shared with the ignitor's red lead....so ignitor was not getting proper 12v power. I later by-passed the ballast, providing +12v from ignition direct to coil +ve and the ignitor's red lead....which is the preferred connection method. Yet coil failed within a few months like this. So Hoping it was just a vibration/faulty coil who's time had come...

[Tornado99]

Fitted new epoxy filled FT-2 coil, hooked up to full 12v as instructions state. Car fired right up and now running fine for hours. I'll presume the oil-filled coil failure was from too much vibration. My 1275cc engine might have a hot cam in it as local specialist says it has a lumpy idle. Might be giving coil more shaking than it can handle. Epoxy version should be better for this.

Edited by Tornado99, 03 June 2021 - 10:49 PM.

[Ethel]

Re the V vs R stuff,

 

You seem to be on the money...

 

When your meter is measuring resistance it supplies the voltage itself so you should really remove other power connections.

 

Voltage is known as potential difference & that's what your meter will show: the difference between the two probes. If you had 1000v at one and the other was the other side of a resistance that dropped the voltage to 999v your meter would read 1v.

[croc7]

Fitted new epoxy filled FT-2 coil, hooked up to full 12v as instructions state. Car fired right up and now running fine for hours. I'll presume the oil-filled coil failure was from too much vibration. My 1275cc engine might have a hot cam in it as local specialist says it has a lumpy idle. Might be giving coil more shaking than it can handle. Epoxy version should be better for this.

I agree. I was using an oil filled coil (FT) that failed while in the high desert country of Wyoming, oh-oh! Replaced it with an epoxy filled Bosch coil which I think is better suited for a high vibration application for the mini being mounted on the engine rather than firewall.