126 replies to this topic

[Chris1992]

Did they send a graph or tell you power/torque the engine was putting out

 

No, the engine was only on the dyno long enough to get it running and tuned due to time and cost, so it's not been fully run in yet. 

[Chris1992]

Hi Guys, 

 

Sorry for the lack of updates, but considerable progress has been made now, so I wanted to round this topic off with a summary of everything. 

 

So just to recap (without reading back through the whole thread), the engine ran after getting it back from SC, but it would get considerably harder to keep idling as it warmed up. I told John about this and he sent over a new map which seemed to cure that. In the end I decided to take the advice of many on this thread and switched out the 440cc injectors for some BMW 220cc ones. I asked John to change the map to suit these which he did no problems.

 

At this point the engine was running and idling, but after a quick test run I could tell it needed mapping as it was not happy at low revs. It would bog down every time I tried to pull away from a stand still, regardless of how many beans I gave it. I wasn't aware how bad it was until taking it to Revivals 59 (FWI, brilliant garage) for it's MOT, where it failed spectacularly on emissions, reading pretty much double the legal requirement. This led us to realise that it was running far too rich, very bad for running in a new engine, so the plan was made to bring it back the following week and get it on the rollers for mapping. Well.... I arrived at 2:30 in the afternoon, and we didn't finish until 7:30pm, having made absolutely zero progress.... The supporting software for the Delta 400 is quite possibly the most horrendous thing I've ever seen. Poorly laid out and lacking many basic features, but the big issue we had was that the laptop and ECU just didn't seem to be communicating properly. Every time we felt like we were making progress, the software would freeze, or inexplicably reset half the numbers on the graph, or just generally have a fit. If I had known all this at the start, then I would have gone for a Link ECU instead. Another thing we found was that the TPS sensor module didn't have enough rotational adjustment on it to even begin to pick up a voltage reading, so we had to tap a thread into a redundant hole in the throttle body to move the locking screw, and allow more movement.

 

So, thoroughly defeated, the guys at Revivals pledged to sort this come hell or high water. The plan was made to bring it back the following week and leave the car with them, during which time they would study the software on their own computer, and try a few other CAN interface things they had in stock. Fast forward to today, and they have had the car for a week. I have just received a call that the car is done and ready to pick up! Supposedly you just have to be very patient with the software and turn the speed of the coms down. It also seems that the CAN interface USB that SC provide could be a weak link, as after chatting to SCS Delta, I found that SC produce their own CAN USB which is '6 times slower' than the one SCS Delta produce themselves. 

 

Revivals tell me that they were even able to run the engine in on the dyno, allowing us to do some high power runs too. The engine made 120bhp at 7k, and it was still climbing and pulling like a train, but I didn't fancy going any higher than that on a standard (albeit drilled, knife-edged, and balenced) crank. It also made 90ftlb of torque from 3.5k. I'm super happy with these numbers! I'm off to collect the car in a few hours, and I can't wait. 

 

I'll update this thread again if any more complications arise, as I think it does a pretty good job of covering all the basic hurdles which pop up when fitting one of these conversions. For now I just want to say a massive thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, especially Northernpower and sonkk4, who gave me some fantastic advice during the build. Also, if you're around the Cambridge area, I thoroughly recommend the guys at Revivals 59 garage. Incredibly knowledgeable of all performance and classic car related stuff, especially Minis. 

 

Cheers guys!

[Shooter63]

I'm really glad you got it sorted in the end, most people who have problems with these SC engines seem to have problems with the ECU which is strange as one of the owners of the company I believe is an ex lotus electrics guy ( mind you there are some that say lotus stands for " loads of trouble usually serious"). When I spoke to my local RR guys they told me if I came in with an Delta ECU I could F off, as they won't touch them due to the agro they cause.
Enjoy it, you deserve it after the c##p you've been through

Shooter

[IronmanG]

It looks like the ecu is ok provided its looked at by a very few specialists.
Glad its sorted.

[sonscar]

It is probably not the ECU,more likely the tuning software and documentation.Enjoy,Steve..

[Chris1992]

I'm really glad you got it sorted in the end, most people who have problems with these SC engines seem to have problems with the ECU which is strange as one of the owners of the company I believe is an ex lotus electrics guy ( mind you there are some that say lotus stands for " loads of trouble usually serious"). When I spoke to my local RR guys they told me if I came in with an Delta ECU I could F off, as they won't touch them due to the agro they cause.
Enjoy it, you deserve it after the c##p you've been through

Shooter

 

 

It looks like the ecu is ok provided its looked at by a very few specialists.
Glad its sorted.

 

 

It is probably not the ECU,more likely the tuning software and documentation.Enjoy,Steve..

 

Thanks guys I appreciate it! After driving it home yesterday I can confirm it is sooooo much better, it is a very rowdy engine! I'm going to have a lot of fun with this one 

 

It could do with some further tweaks, as it will still cough when pulling away if it's cold. Already spoke to Revivals about that and they're happy to take another look soon. 

 

For now though, I'm off on a spontaneous road trip up to Leamington to see some friends, and then join the Solihull Mini Owners Club for a little jaunt. Will report back on how I get on!

[Steve220]

It is probably not the ECU,more likely the tuning software and documentation.Enjoy,Steve..

The ECU garbage too. So much so, they no longer make that model. They re-hashed the 800 and called it the 400S. My D400 used to corrupt the maps regularly, SC and SCS were extremely rude in their Comms when I asked could it be sent back to be examined and how I could install knock detection (you can't by the way). I've gone for haltech.

Chris, glad you got it sorted mate 😎 always worth having a wideband to keep an eye on AFRs. I use it for closed loop idle to remain stoic (problem with mine being a 2000 cooper)

Edited by Steve220, 29 May 2021 - 09:20 AM.

[sonscar]

Speaking as someone who has two Megasquirt equipped cars I thought everything else must be better.Steve..

[Steve220]

Speaking as someone who has two Megasquirt equipped cars I thought everything else must be better.Steve..

The sad reality is that megasquirt is probably a lot better than the D400. The software and after care certainly is!

[Chris1992]

Well, so much for celebrating! I have ended the weekend on the back of a recovery truck... The saga continues. 

 

Allow me to recap...

 

The 2 hour drive up to Leamington went great, as did the few trips I made later on the Saturday. Good oil pressure, runs nice and cool. Splendid.  

 

It obviously wasn't meant to be though, as on Sunday I went to pick up a mate to take him for a spin, and when turning round at the end of his road it stalled. From here on it began to run worse and worse, to the point it was impossible to give it any throttle at all without it immediately dying. If I could get it up into the higher revs then it was still bog down as if I had the handbrake on (the brakes definitely aren't binding, I checked). I knew I needed fuel (although it definitely hadn't run out), so I was able to limp it to the nearest petrol station (Texaco in this case) and brimmed the tank. This is where things get really odd, as after cranking for a few seconds it fired up first try, so we deduced that it much have been a bad batch of Tesco fuel that I filled up with the day before, and went on our merry way... for about 10 minutes. After initially running great, it then slowly began to get worse, becoming almost undrivable by the time I limped it back to my mates house. Thoroughly fed up, we spent the rest of the day in the garden with beer. 

 

This morning I was supposed to be attending a little run put on by the Solihull Mini Owners Club, so with much apprehension I ventured out in the morning to see if it would behave itself today. Nope... Not even trying to fire, just turning over and over with the occasional cough. Cleaned the plugs and checked fuel pressure, but nothing made a difference. It was at this point I realised that the rubber inlet pipes that hold the throttle bodies to the intake subs on the head had severely perished, one of them completely split in half. These were supposed to have been replaced with new ones from SC, so if they were, then they have perished eye-wateringly quickly. I was absolutely certain that this was the cause of all my running issues, as the extra air getting into the throttle bodies through the splits would be massively leaning out the mixture for those intake ports. As a temporary fix, I took everything apart and wrapped the rubber pipes tightly with electrical tape, followed by gaffer tape, making sure it was done in such a way that the hose clamps would tighten down over the tape to make it all air tight. once all back together, the first thing I noticed was that it turned over much quicker, and I was getting ready to celebrate again, but a quick test drive up the road and back revealed that it was still impossible to pull away from a stand still without burning the clutch, and it was still bogging down at high revs. I pulled the car back onto my mates drive and we decided to just give up and go to the show as spectators as the sun was out, but I had blocked his car in with the Mini so needed to move it. Well, even though I had driven it not even 2 minutes ago, it absolutely refused to start. I checked fuel pressure in the rail again, and used a small piece of tinfoil to check the gaps on the butterfly's inside the throttle bodies, but nothing... 10 minutes of cranking with zero signs of life, I was defeated. 

 

So, I had to face the inevitable and call the breakdown cover. They turned up in 20 minutes, and I arranged to have the car taken straight back to Revivals 59 so they could carry on looking at it. That is where the car sits now, and quite frankly I'm not sure I can even look at it again for a while. I'm nearly at my wits end to be honest, but I'm well past the point of no return. Who wants to bet me a fiver that it starts first time when Revivals look at it??

I just can't figure out why I'm having such a headache, I get that the ECU is a load of excrement, as is the software, but many others are using it with seemingly no issues. If all else fails I will be switching to a Link ECU which will also mean a new custom loom.

 

Something else I have noticed is that I am getting a ridiculous amount of oil from the breather pipes. I don't run a catch can, just small K&N breathers for the look, but I'm going to have to fit one, as the amount of oil being forced though them is crazy. Is this normal for higher performance engines? The back of the car is also covered in residue, which also makes me think it's still running rich, despite being tuned to get through the emissions test. 

 

Sorry to have to post yet another gloomy update on this engine. Hopefully one day this will all be worth it, but not sure when that day will come. 

 

Cheers guys

Chris

[Shooter63]

Wow!!! , I can't believe how much bad luck you're having, I know I've said this before but I really would take it to SC, they supposedly sold you a crate engine, which it's obviously not.

Shooter

[Chris1992]

Wow!!! , I can't believe how much bad luck you're having, I know I've said this before but I really would take it to SC, they supposedly sold you a crate engine, which it's obviously not.

Shooter

 

Tell me about it mate, my car is cursed lol. I'm going to call SC tomorrow and explain everything that's happened, but I'm not putting too much faith in that getting me anywhere... Right now I'm just willing to write a blank cheque for anyone who can sort this mess out. 

[IronmanG]

Get it taken up to them on a low loader.
I am having some issues with them. And again to be fair they reply and sort the issues out next day, but why should there be any?

[sonikk4]

Reading all of this makes me think while the hell did I spend so much money on a product which by the sounds of things has not had a decent amount of R&D done on it.

Just means now I have to spend another £1k on a Haltech ECU and associated parts.

[Shooter63]

Wow!!! , I can't believe how much bad luck you're having, I know I've said this before but I really would take it to SC, they supposedly sold you a crate engine, which it's obviously not.

Shooter

 
Tell me about it mate, my car is cursed lol. I'm going to call SC tomorrow and explain everything that's happened, but I'm not putting too much faith in that getting me anywhere... Right now I'm just willing to write a blank cheque for anyone who can sort this mess out.

Don't get too down hearted, it might be as simple as a loose or knackered crank sensor, positive thinking required.

Shooter