22 replies to this topic

[JonnyAlpha]

Hi,

 

Many times over the past 5 years restoring and maintaining my Mini I have often needed to fashion tools. spacers, etc and have wished I'd had a Pillar Drill, Lathe or Milling Machine.

 

I am now building and doing my first ever engine build / transplant, which is going to involve modifying the cylinder head myself.

 

I don't have access to such tools so was considering whether to invest but don't have a clue what I am looking for. I have been seeking advice in the Mig Welding Forum (Tools Section) but thought I'd ask on here as this will mainly be specific to Mini tasks.

 

Due to the costs the first thing I need to identify is would a smaller model makers lathe be suitable?

They seem to be measured in distance between centres and distance from centre? 

 

What size should I get? 

 

[imack]

Depends on the space you have available but the old Myford ml7's or super 7's are pretty versatile for a bench top model makers lathe. They only have a 3.5" swing over the bed and a 9" swing in the bed gap but it's more than enough for most mini related work. I've turned down 8.4" vented discs in the on it mounted to the face plate
I've got an old Myford ml7 with a vertical slide attachment which let's you perform some basic milling operations.
Never tried it myself but apparently you can get a mini crankshaft in it which will allow you to polish the journals.
I'd steer clear of the Chinese stuff, machine mart etc.

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Edited by imack, 23 September 2020 - 08:32 PM.

[Shooter63]

Distance between centres and centre height govern the size of material you can turn, I'm just a home user not a pro but found a small lathe really useful, my 1st lathe was a myford ml10 a great piece of kit and wish I never sold it, in the case of myford there are so many accessories available you can make just about anything plus the accessories are cheap, although they are no longer made parts are still easy to come by. Personally for a 1st lathe I would still go for myford and I wouldn't get too hung up on getting one with a screw cutting gearbox, change gears are easy once you get the hang of them plus you get a back gear.

Shooter

[GraemeC]

You certainly can get a rank in an ML7 - done that to polish a flywheel taper.

 

how did you attach the brake disc to a faceplate?

[imack]

You certainly can get a rank in an ML7 - done that to polish a flywheel taper.

how did you attach the brake disc to a faceplate?

It was a few years ago now and I can't remember for certain but I think I clamped the disc to the face plate by inserting the clamps into the disc vents within the bell.

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Edited by imack, 23 September 2020 - 08:41 PM.

[imack]

Sealey bench drill is particularly good quality but it has its uses.
Had to put a twist in the belt to make it run anti clockwise when drilling out a broken cam retaining plate bolt with a left handed twist drill.

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Edited by imack, 23 September 2020 - 09:09 PM.

[Spider]

You'd be able to pay for a lot of machining to be done outside before you recouped your money on the likes or a Lathe and / or Milling Machine, and in particular, all the tooling etc that you need to go with it, not to mention a bigger range of measuring gear.

 

In your learning process, you'll also make mistakes, some of which could well write off expensive items like heads that have been worked or blocks.

 

Having had small and big machines, used and new,,,, I have to express some considerable caution at buying used. It's quite hard to properly assess a machine for wear, twists or other issues and even more so if you have no experience with them. It's very very easy to spend more on a used machine bringing it up to some sort of usable condition to the point where a new machine would have been considerably cheaper and ready to go to work shortly after receiving it, than spending months looking for Unicorn parts.

 

Not withstanding the above posts, I've always found without exception, you can machine way more accurately with a heavy machine, than a lighter one, it's less susceptible to flex and movement than a small machine. As a guide, from experience, for automotive work and general jobbing, I wouldn't look at a Lathe under 1 tonne or a Turret type Mill under 2 tonne.

 

You'll spend around 3 times what you pay for the machine to tool up to get started.

 

A drill press on the other hand is I feel a good investment for most home workshops, I'd suggest a floor mounted machine over a bench type that takes away valuable real estate, where a floor drill can often be put in a corner, that's often wasted space, but don't bolt it down as you may find from time to time you'll need to get longer jobs under it. I'd suggest here, looking at something with a 5/8" Chuck and a minimum 2 HP motor. Ideally with a change speed gearbox rather than belt drive, there's nothing really wrong with belts, they are just slow and cumbersome to change speeds, where as a gearchange type has 2 or 3 levers and seconds to change speeds. I bought a gearchange drill about 20 years ago and never looked back.

 

You can get various screw feed slides to fit to a Drill Press to do some Milling Operations. If you do want to consider going that way, don't expect too much at all and don't contemplate any heavy work. Drills are not built for side loads, so it won't do it any good and you'll need something considerably better than a 3 jaw drilling chuck to hold the cutters, they will come out.

[alex-95]

As above what more spider says really, the small machines are usable but aren't that great at any heavy work. We had a small Warco lathe which wasn't too bad but would struggle doing some simple exercises sometimes. I don't think a milling machine would be that handy at home, unless you knew you were going to be using it a fair bit and it'd have to be a good size one, like a Bridgeport else the bed will be too small to be really useable. If you get a pillar drill, don't go too cheap as they aren't very good, thats from experience

[exuptoy]

I bought a 36” Atlas 10F for £300 off eBay which it turns out was made during the war effort in the UK under licence to the yanks which makes it 80 y.o. I spent £250 on steel and cupboards from Ikea and made this bench for it. It is as good as a Myford without the price tag.
It came with a milling cross slide which is a bit flimsy but I have made a few alloy parts for the cafe racer including spacers to fit different wheel, an alloy torque arm and a few alloy pulleys to make a bench grinder linisher. I wouldn’t be without it now.

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[Cooper Mac]

As with everything, you get what you pay for! I defiantly wouldn't buy any Machine Mart or Chinese machine tools, as they will be flimsy and not accurate at all! Oh, and just because they have a nice shiny ground bed and slides, it doesn't mean they are flat......

 

A Myford 7 is a great lathe, and you can get some great attachments for them, but the most important thing is that the Headstock Bearings (the ones that support the main shaft behind the chuck / faceplate) are in good condition without wear. If these are worn, you will struggle to maintain roundness and any accuracy. The other thing to look out for is wear on the bed, some lathes have only been used for machining short axial distances away from the headstock, so the Saddle/Carriage may only have moved back and forth in the first few inches of the bed, which may be worn badly, and the rest of the bed towards the tailstock end may never have been used! So, the 7 is a good all round lathe, BUT for relatively small items, and for light cuts.

 

I personally wouldn't go for anything smaller than a Colchester Student, its strong, rugged, can be used for turning decent sized parts, has an inbuilt suds tank etc. There were thousands of these built for training colleges, tool rooms and light industrial use. The Colchester Master has a longer bed, and that is also useful for cranks etc. Harrison made similar size lathes to Colchester, and these are equally as good. They will all be 3 phase electric, so you will need a 3 phase converter to use it at home on single phase electric, or you can change the motor for a single phase motor, but this has mixed results.....

 

One thing I have found, is that it doesn't matter what size lathe you get, it will always be just too small for your next job.........

 

Milling machine wise, this is more of a minefield.... Horizontal, Vertical, Universal? As Moke Spider said, you need a machine with a large mass to minimise vibration when machining, and milling machines take up a lot of floor space.

 

Pillar Drill wise, go for a floor mounted one, otherwise you will always struggle to get things under the chuck. Also, get a pillar drill where the headstock has a Morse Taper in it, so that you can remove the Chuck and fit bigger drills, Reamers etc.

 

There are a few pointers to consider:

 

1) Whatever machine tool you buy, treat it with the upmost respect as it will kill you. I'm not scare mongering, it's fact. If you don't know what you are doing, leave well alone. 

2) Buy the best you can afford, and it it's not in good condition, or very easily rectified, walk away.

3) If you are spending lots of money on machine tools, make sure that they are correctly installed, leveled and bolted down. There is an art to getting machine tools set up correctly, and if you don't do it, you might as well have bought a cheap Chinese machine!

4) If you don't have any experience, go to a night school (might be difficult at the moment) as there are a few things to set correctly on these machines to get a good finish etc. These are things that you won't find in any book and can only be learned from a time served engineer!

[bikewiz]

I have a 10" Clausing lathe and a big Precision Matthews mill which are great to have, I've made a lot of bits for my car, bicycles, motorbikes, boats, and for the machines themselves. My thoughts on the subject are, do you have the space, do you have the electrical service to handle the power demand, do you have any experience machining, can you afford the tooling, how much will you actually use it. The machines are relatively cheap, the tooling, as has been mentioned can get expensive. I know with both my mill and lathe, tooling was as much or more than the machines. This video gives a good idea what it can cost. 

 

Once you have machines you'll look for uses as there's a great satisfaction making, modifying, or repairing your own parts.

[Bobbins]

Can anyone tell me which model of Myford this is? It was originally my grandfathers (he died in '67) and it's been kept at my work for the last 50 years and now never gets used. I'm thinking about relocating it to home and giving it a refurb, although not really sure how easy it is to source any parts I might need. I've been told Myfords are ideal for hobbyist home use.

 

 

 

 

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[imack]

Can anyone tell me which model of Myford this is? It was originally my grandfathers (he died in '67) and it's been kept at my work for the last 50 years and now never gets used. I'm thinking about relocating it to home and giving it a refurb, although not really sure how easy it is to source any parts I might need. I've been told Myfords are ideal for hobbyist home use.

ML7,

It's an early one, probably around 1949

Edited by imack, 24 September 2020 - 02:36 PM.

[Bobbins]

That would make sense, I suspect my grandfather would have bought it new.

[Spider]

Can anyone tell me which model of Myford this is? It was originally my grandfathers (he died in '67) and it's been kept at my work for the last 50 years and now never gets used. I'm thinking about relocating it to home and giving it a refurb, although not really sure how easy it is to source any parts I might need. I've been told Myfords are ideal for hobbyist home use.

 

They are a Great Lathe for sure and quite ideal for the hobbyist. I think you'll find parts, while no longer available new, will generally be available. I did a lot of work on one for many years. There was a huge range of accessories available for them that not only allowed for turning operations, but also some milling operations.

 

The Headstock in many of these were bushed and while that has no where and if constantly loaded with oil, they were quite good, but once they get any wear in them, they'll only produce very frustrating hit and miss results. I believe they can be re-bushed, but I'm not sure what's involved. I think it was only a special range of the last of them that had bearings.

 

But, I'll say for most automotive work, they are too light.