14 replies to this topic

[BillyTheMini]

HI,

 

My first question on this forum so please be gentle with me 

 

I've stripped my mini to the bare shell ready for welding/panel replacement. After which I was planning to respray the car myself (well show my grandson how to and get him to to it).

 

Whilst at the body shop to get an estimate for the welding the owner informed me that it is illegal to spray a car in a private garage or out side your house as the paint contains Cyanide and also overspay would damage nearby cars. He said that to home spray leaves you open to a serious fine.

 

I have resprayed several cars in my younger days and knew of no problems using cellulose other than good ventilation etc. I asked him if celulose had changed that much and he said yes. 

 

I got a bad feeling that he was scare mongering to get the additional spray work.

 

QUESTION: Is he right or is cellulose the same as it was 20 odd years ago.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

 

[imack]

I don't think cellulose has changed. I think it's two pack paint that contains cyanide. Not entirely sure of the legality of spraying at home, obviously there is potential fire risk and you've got the risk of upsetting nearby neighbours with noise and smell.
I sprayed my car when the neighbours were on holiday to try and minimise potential problems.

[nicklouse]

It depends on where you are.

 

cellulose has been banned just about everywhere.

 

2 pack needs Pro.   PPE and control.  As it is highly toxic.

 

acrylic seems to be ok to use. 
 

but many people use any and all of the above at home.

[imack]

I used cellulose at home. I think cellulose is banned for professional body shop use except for low volume classic car painting.

[Ethel]

Unlikely there are specific laws, though you could be sued for damages in any case. The manufacturer of any paint & thinners you're considering will have COSHH product information so you can get an idea about using it safely beforehand.

[sonikk4]

HI,
 
My first question on this forum so please be gentle with me 
 
I've stripped my mini to the bare shell ready for welding/panel replacement. After which I was planning to respray the car myself (well show my grandson how to and get him to to it).
 
Whilst at the body shop to get an estimate for the welding the owner informed me that it is illegal to spray a car in a private garage or out side your house as the paint contains Cyanide and also overspay would damage nearby cars. He said that to home spray leaves you open to a serious fine.
 
I have resprayed several cars in my younger days and knew of no problems using cellulose other than good ventilation etc. I asked him if celulose had changed that much and he said yes. 
 
I got a bad feeling that he was scare mongering to get the additional spray work.
 
QUESTION: Is he right or is cellulose the same as it was 20 odd years ago.
 
Thanks for any help.

2K does not contain Cyanide, it’s a myth and it’s actually isocyanate. It’s still harmful and causes respiratory issues so needs correct PPE , extraction and filtration.

I sprayed it at my workshop which is away from houses. I rigged up a spray booth, filtration, I have a forced air breathing mask with correct PPE.

As to Celly, as it’s not really used now unlike previous times you really need to talk to the paint suppliers or look at the H&S documentation for the product.

[Benoit_Dupont]

I think it's not so much about exposure than the actual pollution induced by using those chemicals at hope. The problem is even if you are a responsible guy, you are forbidden to use it because some low-life poor the residue directly down the drain pipe. then it goes to the water treatment plant and messes up quite a lot of stuff or even end up in river streams. 

 

I did not know actually that Cellulose paint was still going. I knew it was how car were painted until the 50's but I thought this has been replaced by newer material since. 

in france, the only people I know still doing Cellulose based are guys painting pre-war vehicles (Traction and there German equivalent).

[MrE812]

Not wholly illegal as far as I know

Seems as though Celly would be more suitable for home/DIY use than other types...

Got this from www.jawel.co.uk

 

Cellulose automotive paint a petroleum based material and has not been used by car manufacturers for over thirty years. Although it is still very popular with classic and vintage car restoration companies and customers wishing to paint / refurbish cars at home. Cellulose paint still has a few advantages over some of the modern automotive paints, mainly that it is easy to apply and if you make a mistake it can be rectified straight away, the down side is you have to cut and polish all cellulose paint to get a good acceptable gloss finish or alternatively you can apply a couple of coats of 1K Acrylic lacquer.

 

I'm painting mine in 2K base and clear, it's risky but costs less than the re-spray quote I got (was more than the car's worth).

[Benoit_Dupont]

I always admire people who can paintspray a car. I'm only as good as primer goes. :) 

I can stray small items but entire body panel, I'm always impressed. 

[BillyTheMini]

Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. It is much appreciated.

 

As I thought he was scare mongering. 

[bluedragon]

The other disadvantages of cellulose (aka lacquer) paint is that it is much inferior in durability than enamels (especially 2K enamels.) It chips and cracks more easily and fades quicker when exposed to sunlight. It's best for someone trying to achieve an authentic vintage finish, who will not use the car much for actual road driving. (it is easier to repair chips though.)

 

For the eco-conscious, the reason these were banned or restricted is due to the huge amount of vapors poured out spraying the cellulose paint. Unlike most enamels, you use more thinner/solvent than paint, and indeed much of the paint is wasted as overspray vapor.

 

If contemplating a metallic, I absolutely would not use cellulose, because if that type of paint chips or cracks, it's a lot of work to repair due to the matching problems with metallic.

 

 

Dave

[sonscar]

In my limited experience if you intend to follow all the car restoration shows and colour sand and machine polish( this only applies to solid colours) you might as well brush or roller 2k paint and buff it up.I have not tried this but have just sanded massive orange peel down and buffed it by machine and the results are better than I have ever achieved from the gun.I am a cheapskate bodger.Steve..

[Ethel]

Celly was common at least in to the 80's & there'll be a use for it as long as there's cars covered in it to repair. Pretty sure the issue was all the hydrocarbon vapour going in to the atmosphere, just the same as our petrol tank venting.

 

I don't know much about more modern paints, but I'd want something that'll flat & polish at least as well if I were to try applying it in a domestic garage.

[Quinlan minor]

As I thought he was scare mongering. 

Or trying to drum up some business.

[Cooperman]

I have just sprayed a complete Mini in cellulose in my workshop which is in my garden.

Top quality paint from Jawal Paint. Got a great finish and now just have to flat-back and polish. Looks good in Ford Radiant Red with a black roof. 5" x 10" wheels will be gold.

 

It's my Grandson's car and I told him that I had tried to get the sort of ex-factory finish, but that I couldn't get the same 'orangepeel' effect and that he would have to accept a smoother and more shiny finish!