25 replies to this topic

[PACINO]

Hi folks! I want or I'd like to adjust my Distributor (123Ignition) as best as possible using the strobe gun light. The engine is 1275cc A-series.

FIRST. To what degrees should I put the advance?


icon club fotos

SECOND. I don't have this scale. This car (year 1972) has never had it. So I'm not very clear how to make the adjustment. My idea is getting the Top death center (TDC) at cylinder 1. At that time, the crankshaft pulley mark is at zero degrees. It is so true?

Regards, Luis

[Spider]

CSI Suggest an initial setting of 10⁰, however, once you have it up and running, you may wish to tinker with that a little.

 

On your model, the timing marks are on the flywheel. If you look on the clutch cover, at the top side of it, you'll see a diamond shaped plate held in with 2 x 1/4" Screws, remove that and you can see, with the aid of a mirror, the timing marks in there.

[PACINO]

Hi Moke Spider, and thanks for your answer. Yes, I know that little window on the clutch cover.
Sorry, who or what is CSI? What do you mean with 100, degrees?

I fitted the 123ignition a couple years ago, but It is placed in ear, and I suspect that it is not put in its exact point and I am losing some horsepower.
Nobody has placed this type of electronic distributor using the timing strobe lamp??

Regards, Luis

[Spider]

Sorry, I was thinking of a different unit.

 

The 10⁰ is 10 degrees, however, that's not likely relevant with your 123.

 

You'll find a manual for it here;--

 

https://123ignition....ual_SWITCH4.pdf

 

I'm not sure if it is suggested in the manual, however, once you have it running, I don't see why it can't be set with a strobe.

 

Yes, you'll loose power with the 123. When I looked at them a few years back, none of the available curves suited the A Series Engine.

[cal844]

I agree with MS on this, my friend had a one of these fitted to an A series. We couldn't get the car to run as well as we liked (engine was timed up with a points distributor, then we used the 123 and took at least 6 months testing.) the company directors and tech team ran out of things to try!

We ended up sending the 123 dizzy back and fitted a normal electronic kit into the points distributor. The car improved to be better than the points set up.

Not what you want to hear, I know but just my findings from this instance.

[PACINO]

hey guys, thank you very much for your opinions! Moke, that manual in PDF is very complete but I have already read it several times because it comes on paper inside the box when you buy the dizzy.

Cal844, it's true that there are people who are not happy with this device because it does not get the car to work really well. There is also the programmable version making the particular advance curve you like in computer through a USB connection. I have discussed this with Keith Calver, and he does not like this dealer.

But now that I've got it and with the price it costs me, I must make it work as efficiently as possible.

[Streetscreamer]

In my stage 4 engine I used the 123 ignition of the "old style" with 16 built in curves. To get things really working you have to do a little more tweaking than only drop in as 123 advices. 

 

First of all: use a Pertronix coil of 1,5 Ohm resistance instead of standard (4Ohm) coil. This will solve a lot of weakness in higher rpm range. 

Dont use coil of electronic ignition, these have less than 1 Ohm resistance on primary coil, not ok for 123.

 

Second: I f you are able to use a strobe for the perfect timing measurement, you are able to select e.g a 28 deg curve which you give some extra advance by lining it up with 2 degr BTDC. In that way you create a higher advance at idling instead of the fixed starting point of 10 deg BTDC that 123 uses. This will help to suit the needs of your engine. In te same time you still will keep the right max advance. In my case 30 deg was done with 28 deg curve and 2deg static advance. All the curve have a rapid increase at low rpm, and above 2000 rpm will increase slower. Level of this point you can set well advanced and then choose a milder curve if there is detonation. 

Then your engine can go like stink!

 

If mounting other electronics to the ignition circuit please be aware the 123 ignition has a built - in stabilizer by spark balancing. This means the timing can be different for each firing. So the "window" between the firing will vary. If using an external rev limiter like OMEX, they will not like it. It may look like interference on the wiring, but it is not (got the T shirt).  If you insist on a rev limiter, then use the USB version of 123, which is fully programmable.

 

Despite the fact I almost live around the corner of the developers of 123, I am not a reseller, nor influenced by them. I just share my experiences.

[ACDodd]

The biggest problem with all these types of dizzies, is not the dizzies! It's people lack of ability to properly use a timing light.

Ac

[PACINO]

In my stage 4 engine I used the 123 ignition of the "old style" with 16 built in curves. To get things really working you have to do a little more tweaking than only drop in as 123 advices. 
 
First of all: use a Pertronix coil of 1,5 Ohm resistance instead of standard (4Ohm) coil. This will solve a lot of weakness in higher rpm range. 
Dont use coil of electronic ignition, these have less than 1 Ohm resistance on primary coil, not ok for 123.
 
Second: I f you are able to use a strobe for the perfect timing measurement, you are able to select e.g a 28 deg curve which you give some extra advance by lining it up with 2 degr BTDC. In that way you create a higher advance at idling instead of the fixed starting point of 10 deg BTDC

Hello! Firstly thank you for the answer.
In these two years using 123ignition with BERU Coil ZS106 (3 Ohms primary resistance) after testing many others, I chose the 'B' (32degrees) curve. The car with this dizzy starts quite well, but ... I can't get it to stretch the engine as much as before. Now when you drive on an open road, it does not exceed 4000revs. Before it reached more top speed and the gauge, could reach 6.500revs. Why? I do not know.

So following your advice, choose a curve whose 'maximum' advance is 28 degrees, such as curves 0 1 2 or 3, and then leave the marks on the pulley at 2 degrees BTDC. Is that so friend?

Regards, Luis

[whistler]

Hi folks! I want or I'd like to adjust my Distributor (123Ignition) as best as possible using the strobe gun light. The engine is 1275cc A-series.

FIRST. To what degrees should I put the advance?


icon club fotos

SECOND. I don't have this scale. This car (year 1972) has never had it. So I'm not very clear how to make the adjustment. My idea is getting the Top death center (TDC) at cylinder 1. At that time, the crankshaft pulley mark is at zero degrees. It is so true?

Regards, Luis

The timing marks are on the flywheel. remove the little late on the top side of the clutch housing (wok) and you can see them with a mirror. There's TDC and degree markings. i couldn't be bothered with that so I found TDC with a dti gauge and put 2 paint dots, 1 on the bottom pulley and the other adjacent on the timing cover case.

[PACINO]

Hello friend, and thanks for your help.

So the theme is like this:

- Top dead center mark (TDC) on the flywheel (compression piston stroke).
- Painting a mark at timing cover.
- Engine running at 1,500revs (??) and vacuum tube disconnected.
- Using the timing strobe lamp, make a static advance of 2 degrees BTDC.

And the curve, which one do I choose? 0 1 2 or 3

Regards, Luis

[DamoMini]

Hello friend, and thanks for your help.

So the theme is like this:

- Top dead center mark (TDC) on the flywheel (compression piston stroke).
- Painting a mark at timing cover.
- Engine running at 1,500revs (??) and vacuum tube disconnected.
- Using the timing strobe lamp, make a static advance of 2 degrees BTDC.

And the curve, which one do I choose? 0 1 2 or 3

Regards, Luis

Yes - when you find TDC on the flywheel place a mark on the timing cover that matches the mark on the drive shaft pulley.

Disconnect the vacuum tube from the 123 and block the tube so that no air leaks into the carburetor.

Initial timing for the 123 should be set at idle (less than 1000 RPM).  At 1500 RPM the 123 has already started to add timing advance.

To use the marks you made, your timing light needs to be adjustable - you have to adjust it to 10 degrees to see the two marks line up. When they do, you will have 10 degrees BTDC which is the base setting for the 123. Then if you want to follow @StreetScreamer's advice you can add 2 more degrees (so idle timing will be 12 degrees BTDC).

 

Which curve you use depends on what type of engine you have and how it has been modified,  This link is to an older version of the installation instructions but it has additional curves and what engines they work with.

 

https://allbrit.de/d...er_123_MINI.pdf

The curve information was provided by Marcel Chichak who I believe was involved with the design of the available curves for the Mini 123.

 

The 0, 1, 2, 3 curves are for race engines according to the link.

 

To figure out which curve to start with check the doc at this link which includes curves for different types of engines. 

[PACINO]

The biggest problem with all these types of dizzies, is not the dizzies! It's people lack of ability to properly use a timing light.

Ac

Thanks! Have you adjusted any of this specials dizzys? Would be nice to hear your experience. Amazing your answer about S.u. carbs needles in the other post.

[PACINO]

[quote name="whistler" post="3656415" timestamp="1594046723"

[/quote]
The timing marks are on the flywheel. remove the little late on the top side of the clutch housing (wok) and you can see them with a mirror. There's TDC and degree markings. i couldn't be bothered with that so I found TDC with a dti gauge and put 2 paint dots, 1 on the bottom pulley and the other adjacent on the timing cover case.[/quote]

I've been reading your background with the Minis. "Started messing with minis in about late 1966....". Great story! Thank you for your help.

[PACINO]

Hi Damomini, cheers man for the help! I'd like to ask you all a question. There is something that strikes me, and perhaps it may have some importance to get from the engine all its full potential and to leave the Distributor well adjusted.

When I disconnect the vacuum tube coming from the dizzy and entering the side of one of the carburettors, the idle does not rise, the engine does not accelerate, and there is no change or alteration. When I had mounted the Hif44, disconnecting that tube you felt an alteration or change. Now with Twin Hs2 nothing happens. I have both carburettors connected by a rubber tube.

Do you think this is ok?