13 replies to this topic

[DUF2]

The engine has not run on my Elf for 2 years. I have been doing a lot of work to the car, but not to the engine apart from, Cleaned out fuel tank, new fuel pipe, new water hoses

So today I tried to day to fire it up, plugs out to prime the fuel line, fuel now up to carb, but there does not appear to be a lot of fuel in the filter I have installed just before the carb.

I spun the engine over, expecting oily to come out of the oil gauge pipe, no oil. Connected the oil gauge, but no pressure on the gauge after turning the engine over for 10 seconds or so. Oil on dipstick, good clean oil so has not been drained.

Any ideas why I should have no pressure? It was showing 50psi last time the engine was running.

what I do need to check is oil pressure at the block, in case the pipe is blocked.

obviously I won’t be fitting the plugs until I have oil pressure.

any ideas?

[imack]

Possibly the oil pump drained over time and unable to pick up fresh oil.
I'd remove the banjo bolt in the block-the one that connects the external oil pipe that feeds the filter. Use an oil can filled with engine oil and pump it into the hole in the block the banjo bolt came out of. When the hole is full of oil put the car in top gear and push the car backwards. This turns the engine backwards and refills the pump with fresh oil. Repeat this half a dozen times, reassemble and crank engine and hopefully you'll get oil pressure.
I do this as a precaution with my car prior to the first start after winter just to try and get oil pressure as quickly as possible.

Edited by imack, 06 April 2020 - 05:54 PM.

[Quinlan minor]

It's probably not going to come up to pressure, after 2 years, in ten seconds. Did you squirt a little oil down the bores before you spun it up ( won't affect the oil pressure but it's good practice on an engine that's been idle for so long)?

Make sure the float needle valve is shutting properly when it gets fuel.

Then turn it over, plugs out for 30-40 seconds, rest for a couple of minutes, then spin it again for 30-40 seconds and see if the oil light goes out.

[rww]

  Follow imack's post and you should get oil pressure when the engine is cranked. Oiling the bores will help also. Remove all your spark plugs to prevent compression. Charge your battery overnight. Be prepared to crank the engine for several minutes, perhaps giving the starter motor a rest after each minute. The engine will slow slightly when the pump starts to push oil around the engine.

[Cooperman]

It will almost certainly be 'drain down' from the oil pump.

Back prime it through the banjo bolt hole by putting it in gear with the plugs out and push it backwards as you pour oil into the banjo bolt hole.

You may have to jump the battery from another car with the other car's engine running and crank it for quite a long time. I have had to do that for over a minute to get a pump to prime and once I was not able to get pressure even then. I took the engine out and fitted a new and well primed pump which solved the problem. I have even had a newly built engine with a brand new pump which would not 'suck oil'. That also needed another pump.

[DUF2]

Thanks for all the comments

yes I have oiled to bores through the plug holes, the plugs are still out whilst I am trying to get pressure.

i can remove the pipe between the filter & the block, but the car is in the garage and a long way off finished, so cannot roll the car backwards. The filter has not been removed so this should still be full of oil.

[imack]

You should be able to turn the engine backwards by turning the fan, a bit long winded but doable with the plugs out.
It's not the filter you're priming, it's the pump itself.

Edited by imack, 06 April 2020 - 06:57 PM.

[Spider]

Possibly the oil pump drained over time and unable to pick up fresh oil.
I'd remove the banjo bolt in the block-the one that connects the external oil pipe that feeds the filter. Use an oil can filled with engine oil and pump it into the hole in the block the banjo bolt came out of. When the hole is full of oil put the car in top gear and push the car backwards. This turns the engine backwards and refills the pump with fresh oil. Repeat this half a dozen times, reassemble and crank engine and hopefully you'll get oil pressure.
I do this as a precaution with my car prior to the first start after winter just to try and get oil pressure as quickly as possible.

 

This would be my suggest and if I may add to imack's great advice, I'd also remove the plugs too.

[DUF2]

I have taken off the external feed pipe & it was bone dry. I have used an oil can to fill the gallery and the filter. This is when I had my stupid hat on! I was thinking the oil pump was external and built into the filter housing as with the Ford pushrod engine. Having looked at the manual I see the oil pump is on the end of the camshaft. I always thought the external pipe was a pressure pipe when it appears it is a suction pipe!

So if I keep squirting oil into the block where to external pipe goes on, will this oil go into the oil pump and hence prime the pump?

What is the need to try to turn the engine backwards?

I have searched for a drawing/ picture on the route of the oil as I am not sure I have this correct.

is the external filter before or after the pump? Is the external pipe a suction pipe or a pressure pipe?

 

 

 

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[imack]

Filter is after the pump, this is why the pumps ar prone to wear and drain down over long periods of not being used as debris from the gearbox damages the pump causing excess clearances. Turning the engine backwards reverse fills the pump and oil pickup pipe with oil. A worn pump that's drained down and dry wont produce suction to pick up fresh oil from the sump. The filter has pressurized oil going through it to feed the main bearings.

[DUF2]

Filter is after the pump, this is why the pumps ar prone to wear and drain down over long periods of not being used as debris from the gearbox damages the pump causing excess clearances. Turning the engine backwards reverse fills the pump and oil pickup pipe with oil. A worn pump that's drained down and dry wont produce suction to pick up fresh oil from the sump. The filter has pressurized oil going through it to feed the main bearings.

Ahh I have misunderstood how the system worked. I thought the oil was being drawn through the filter then up to the pump.

I have temporarily refitted the external pipe with the inlet high in the air, filled with oil so it can slowly back feed into the pump overnight. I shall try tomorrow to turn the engine backwards to try to draw in more oil.

[DUF2]

SUCCESS!  I had to remove the starter to turn engine backwards, I couldn’t do it from the alternator. But squirting a bit oil into the oil outlet, turn the engine backwards a bit, more oil, more turning. Then refitted oil pipe & starter motor, spun the engine for 10 seconds and could see oil travelling up the plastic oil gauge pipe, vented the gauge and 50 psi on cranking engine.

 

Now I just need to fire it up, but have no spark, I need to do a bit more detective work on the coil wiring. 
how many wires should be on the coil. I have an A+ engine with electronic ignition. I did mark up the wires some years ago and have 2 - coil +. And one coil -  is this correct?

[cal844]

What colour are the wires on the coil.

[DUF2]

I have got it fired up, she runs!

found a wire off at the fuse box, refitted this and it fired up first time. 50+ psi so I am happy.

left it running for 15 minutes or so until it all warmed through and the thermostat opened.

I’m not sue I have the correct coil. Engine is an ‘89 Metro A+ 1275 with a 65DM4 distributor, no ballast resistor on it. The coil I have is a new Lucas DLB 105, but when I eventually switched off the engine, the coil was quite hot.