32 replies to this topic

[croc7]

When torquing a nylock nut, is it correct to determine the friction torque required to overcome the self locking feature of the nut and then add that figure to the required torque? As an example, if the friction torque for the nylock nut on the forward end of the diagonal tie rod is 7 ft/#, is the corrected torque 29 ft/# (7+22 from Haynes)? Or does that torque figure of 22ft/# include friction torque of the nut? Or am I overthinking this?

[nicklouse]

the torque is after it has bottomed out.

 

you are over thinking.

[Spider]

This is a prime example as to why Torque Figures for Nylocs are inaccurate and not really relevant.

 

I've only ever done them up tight - as is appropriate for the size of the thread - and that's it.

 

Because of the way that Nylocs are manufactured, the Basic Nut within them are often Grade 3 Tensile though few are Grade 5. They cannot be made with a Tensile Rating any higher.

[Cooperman]

Just 'nip' them up firmly,

[croc7]

In addition to correct torque figures, another concern of mine was to insure proper compression of the rubber bushes and not to alter caster angles.  Thanks for the replies.

Edited by croc7, 01 April 2019 - 06:50 PM.

[Spider]

In addition to correct torque figures, another concern of mine was to insure proper compression of the rubber bushes and not to alter caster angles.  Thanks for the replies.

 

All the Rubbers that come to mind on the Mini, that fit up on a shaft of one type or another, that have threaded ends and use Nylocs, actually have a shoulder on them.

 

In the case of Tie Bar Rubbers (as I think you are referring here) if you look at the end of the bar, you'll notice the plain, un-threaded section is bigger in diameter than the thread itself. Before fitting a rubber to it, if you want to check for yourself, grab a Washer that is fitted here to retain the rubber and try it over the thread, you'll see that while it goes notice over the thread, it will butt up on the shoulder of that un-threaded section and no further (of shouldn't !!).

 

So, when it's all assembled, you fit the Washers (there's 2 here by the way) and tighten the nut until those Washers butt up on the shoulder and (as Cooperman says), 'nip' it past that.

 

Trying to do these to a specific Torque is worse than the case I mentioned earlier for just Nylocs alone as there's Rubber that's also being compressed. These days, with Crud Rubber, 'normal' Rubber, Hard Rubber and Poly Bushes as well as any combination of these, the effort needed to compress the rubbers is Hugely varioable.

 

It's the same set up / arrangement for the Lower Arm and the Rear Subframe Mounts.

 

A Nyloc is what the UK Factor recommended for fitting here and for most use, that's fine. In our local production, there was a period were we fitted Plain Nuts but the very end of the thread was drilled and an R Clip was fitted to retain the nut should it come loose. For most general builds, I just use a Nyloc, however for the off road 'stuff' I now build (and on competition stuff when I used to do that), I fitted a Plain Nut and a Lock Nut on that.

[Dusky]

They cannot be made with a Tensile Rating any higher.

Can you explain why?
Just bought some grade 8 nylocks, time to swap them out I guess ?

[Cooperman]

I used to use a castellated nut and drill the rod for a split pin, but with Nyloc nuts this is not necessary. However, a Nyloc nut should never be re-used. At least, that is mandated in aviation use where it is required to never re-use a Nyloc.

[Spider]

 

They cannot be made with a Tensile Rating any higher.

Can you explain why?
Just bought some grade 8 nylocks, time to swap them out I guess

 

 

The Nuts are made with an open recess in the top of them, then if any heat treat is to be done, it's at this stage, then they are plated, finally, the Nylon Insert is fitted and to open top of the recess is crimped over to retain the Nylon Insert.

 

Tensile Fasteners which strong are also brittle. You can usually bend a Grade 5 Bolt but a Grade 8 will crack. In the case of the Nylocs, that open recess would simply crack off if they tried crimping that.

 

I have visited a few fastener factories, I found that quite enlightening.

 

I found this video, if you go to around the 1:30 Mark, you'll see the nut prior to the Insert being fitted, then go to around the 2:00 mark and you'll see the insert being fitted and the nut being crimped over;-

 

 

If you are wanting High Grade self locking Nuts, go for something along the lines of a 'Coneloc' - that's a trade name though, they are called by many names

 

 

IMO, the best way of locking nuts is to use a plain nut and a locking nut, but, there's not always space to do this, so next to that, a Coneloc. These are what I use on the Lower Arm Pins, Rear Subframe Mounts and for Shock Absorbers as well as a few other places.

[Dusky]

One day there will be a day you dont have a good answer
Many thanks again friend!

[Mini Manannán]

 

 

They cannot be made with a Tensile Rating any higher.

Can you explain why?
Just bought some grade 8 nylocks, time to swap them out I guess

 

 

 

If you are wanting High Grade self locking Nuts, go for something along the lines of a 'Coneloc' - that's a trade name though, they are called by many names

 

 

IMO, the best way of locking nuts is to use a plain nut and a locking nut, but, there's not always space to do this, so next to that, a Coneloc. These are what I use on the Lower Arm Pins, Rear Subframe Mounts and for Shock Absorbers as well as a few other places.

 

 

Are those available in imperial sizes Chris?  They don't seem to be this end.

[MatthewsDad]

Not sure whether these are quite the same?
https://www.spalding...over-lock-nuts/

[Spider]

 

Are those available in imperial sizes Chris?  They don't seem to be this end.

 

 

Yes mate, that's all that I have in the way of these Nuts.

 

 

Not sure whether these are quite the same?
https://www.spalding...over-lock-nuts/

 

That indeed looks the same animal.

 

Tim, as mentioned, the name 'Coneloc' is a trade / brand name, they do come in other names. Most counters I've been to, if you say 'Coneloc' while that may not be the brand they have, they know what you are banging on about.

[sonikk4]

 

 

 

They cannot be made with a Tensile Rating any higher.

Can you explain why?
Just bought some grade 8 nylocks, time to swap them out I guess

 

 

 

If you are wanting High Grade self locking Nuts, go for something along the lines of a 'Coneloc' - that's a trade name though, they are called by many names

 

 

IMO, the best way of locking nuts is to use a plain nut and a locking nut, but, there's not always space to do this, so next to that, a Coneloc. These are what I use on the Lower Arm Pins, Rear Subframe Mounts and for Shock Absorbers as well as a few other places.

 

 

Are those available in imperial sizes Chris?  They don't seem to be this end.

 

https://www.namrick.co.uk/

[Mini Manannán]

 

 

Are those available in imperial sizes Chris?  They don't seem to be this end.

 

 

Yes mate, that's all that I have in the way of these Nuts.

 

 

Not sure whether these are quite the same?
https://www.spalding...over-lock-nuts/

 

That indeed looks the same animal.

 

Tim, as mentioned, the name 'Coneloc' is a trade / brand name, they do come in other names. Most counters I've been to, if you say 'Coneloc' while that may not be the brand they have, they know what you are banging on about.

 

 

You haven't been to the counters over here mate!