16 replies to this topic

[absx2]

Hi all, I have just noticed how dim my mk3 tail lights are so i`m wondering if the LED bulbs are any brighter than the standard candles and are there any clearance issues etc.  Any recommendations on fleebay ?

Other drivers don`t need an excuse to drive 3 feet off my back end and it would be nice if they could see a bright brake light.

Time for a fog light on the parcel shelf wired into the brakes I think.

 

[richmondclassicsnorthwales]

I have used them on my Midget with good results. The only ones that wont work are the indicators .( resistance and wattage)

 

Can,t think if my stop and tail uses LED, just can,t remember if I did fit them.

 

They area a lot crisper, and shine a nice bright light.

 

A lot of issues regards legality though, so read up on it first. Because they are brighter, it does not make them safer

 

The pattern of light from LED is also different, and will not cast as good as a halogen if you tried to fit them in headlights

 

Legally, you are only allowed to fit them in interior lamps I am informed. Modern cars do use LED,s but these are allowed because they are European technical standard passed. You could fit LED,s but the whole lamp unit would have to be LED compliant

Edited by richmondclassicsnorthwales, 22 January 2019 - 06:06 PM.

[ukcooper]

https://www.ebay.co....sforclassiccars

 

http://www.theminifo...ake-light-kits/

[Spider]

I'll just kick off here by saying in many assemblies, just swapping out the lamp for an LED Lamp is not always legal. I don't actually know exactly why this is, not something I've looked too far in to.

 

Spiyda Design offers some conversion kits and Chris there is great to deal with (and NO, it's not me !!)

 

https://www.spiyda.com/

 

I run LEDs in the Moke, I fitted them back in 2012 and haven't touched them since. I agree that they do have a much better crisp light output and with Brake Lights in particular, they do give better notice to other road users than ordinary bulbs. If these were bulbs, I would have swapped out the rears at least 10 or more times in this period.

 

There are LED type flasher cans available, some that just swap straight over with the standard types, but all that I've tried, while work fine, are silent (no click, click) and so is a little annoying. Spiyda also offer a type that has something in them that makes a noise (not sure what type of noise!) but also need a separate earth connection.

 

Overall, I think it a worthwhile conversion.

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

Consider fitting one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.c...SAF1QRT1D1XH65R

 

or one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.c...ABTK7W58E6KB9J5

 

in the top of the rear window.  The first one is 24" long and may not work with the curvature of the screen but the second one at 12" long should work better.  I've got two 8" versions fitted, one in each rear window of my van and people certainly notice me braking now!

 

Edited by unburntfuelinthemorning, 26 January 2019 - 12:41 PM.

[absx2]

Thanks chaps, great stuff

[Midas Mk1]

Highly recommend Twenty20 bulbs for the rear, bright pure red / amber even in daylight.

Edited by Midas Mk1, 22 January 2019 - 08:49 PM.

[Alice Dooper]

I don’t think using aftermarket LED’s in brake lights is legal because they take a fraction of second longer to react. Modern cars have a lot of type approval to go through for LED’s.

The flash rate for the indicators will be way out unless you can experiment with balance resistors or source an appropriate flasher relay -I think a CF13 works.

I did try some in my number plate lights and on our black car I think they look way better. Got her through 1 MOT with them.

If your lights are really dim I would suggest
1. Check all the wiring, earth and connectors are all good and clean. Surprising how much power is lost on old wiring.
2. Have a good check of the reflectors. A lot of them peel their chroming inside.
3. Try a mega clean of the lense. I put mine through the parts washer (my wife thinks it’s our dishwasher but I’ve my own ideas) and then a good cutting / polishing paste.

Edited by Alice Dooper, 22 January 2019 - 09:19 PM.

[Purplemini1972]

I did LED in the rear tails and I found that the indicators were great but the brake lights were just not that bright. I changed the brakes back....I Also have LED headlamps and driving lights which are legal in Canada if DOT stamped. 

[DeadSquare]

I don’t think using aftermarket LED’s in brake lights is legal because they take a fraction of second longer to react. Modern cars have a lot of type approval to go through for LED’s.

The flash rate for the indicators will be way out unless you can experiment with balance resistors or source an appropriate flasher relay -I think a CF13 works.

I did try some in my number plate lights and on our black car I think they look way better. Got her through 1 MOT with them.

If your lights are really dim I would suggest
1. Check all the wiring, earth and connectors are all good and clean. Surprising how much power is lost on old wiring.
2. Have a good check of the reflectors. A lot of them peel their chroming inside.
3. Try a mega clean of the lense. I put mine through the parts washer (my wife thinks it’s our dishwasher but I’ve my own ideas) and then a good cutting / polishing paste.

 

The refreshment rate of an LED TV is 50/60 Hz, presumably there is no reason why an LED brake light would be any slower, which must be faster that heating an incandescent filament in a bulb.

[paulrockliffe]

Also check the ******* that had the car before you didn't strip it of anything valuable before he sold it to you and leave it with coloured bulbs inside (cracked) coloured lenses       

[Alice Dooper]

There’s a lot of great reasons for LED’s - energy use, reliability, long life, no heat up time etc... There are a few reasons not to use them - polarity sensitivity, light cast angles, resistance difference fooling relays etc... ( though there’s not much there that can’t be worked around if it had to be, especially in a Mini). The limited light castin* angles are why a lot of aftermarket bulbs have several emitters pointing in all directions.

As far as I remember, the law (road vehicle lighting regulations 1989 - well outdated by technical advances) were written way before LED’s were in automotive use and are therefore not mentioned and therefore not legal.

What allows new cars to have them in the UK are European Union / World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (part of the UN economic commision for Europe - the ECE that gave rise to the ‘e’ type approval mark) technical standards and have to go through type approval. These give approval for tested/approved and e marked LED lighting units. So to legally use LED lights on anything other than an interior light, the car model must have been fitted with some sort of type approved LED light unit in some trim level, these sourced and fitted. I’m not sure, but think this even effects the ability to change an LED bulb in a unit.

With the government writing all the current EU rules over and then probably having to retroactively clean all these things up, I wouldnt reckon on the position changing anytime soon whatever happens with Brexit.

An MOT doesn’t really enforce type approval and is supposed to be a minimum safety standard check tested without dismantling so if LED’s are fitted the car could still likely or possibly pass.

All that said, there’s plenty of stuff out there in regular and open use. For instance there’s a very common upgrade for Land Rover Defender owners for waterproof signals / brake lights etc and they are great kit.

Personally, I love LED bulbs and wish you could just straight replace old school incandescent bulbs with decent LED’s. All this regulation mambo jumbo gets shown up as just too heavy or outdated when a new good product arrives.

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

Some quotes from Car Mechanics magazine (Nov 2018):

 

"As there is no road-legal Light Emitting Diode replacement bulb, certain newer car with LED lighting have sealed lamp units.  The enclosed nature of their construction ensures that the LED module and the optics of the lamp work together accurately."

 

"While fitting uprated E-marked bulbs of the same light type is acceptable, mixing and matching different technologies is not.  For example, placing HID or LED bulbs in halogen lamps is technically impossible because they have different bases to prevent accidental fitting.  This has led to the deliberate creation of 'Frankenstein bulbs' which have halogen bases but HID/LED tops so they can be fitted into lamps designed for filament bulbs.  Due to their hybrid construction, it is impossible to meet the required safety standards meaning they are illegal to sell fit and use on British roads.  Due to the lack of any formal certification, the quality of such bulbs can be questionable.  Many of them are available through online marketplaces where some unscrupulous sellers claim they are legal to use.  You may find such items, especially LED sidelight conversion bulbs, offered for sale at reputable retailers, but statements about their non-legality for on-road use can be hidden away in the small print on the packaging, so look carefully."

 

"If you drive an older car, you might have read that you can update its lighting with conversion bulbs because Type Approval regulations do not apply to various lamps beyond a certain age.  Unfortunately the research is incorrect because the assumption is based on original parts of the British Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations from 1989, not the later regulations that superseded them."

 

Unfortunately they do not state what the later regulations are which superseded the 1989 ones.

 

The brake lights I mentioned in my post above are probably not approved but they do seem to help stop people in oversized SUVs driving into the back of me which in a Mini is quite a good thing!

[Mini Manannán]

Consider fitting one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.c...SAF1QRT1D1XH65R

 

or one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.c...ABTK7W58E6KB9J5

 

in the top of the rear window.  The first one is 24" long and may not work with the curvature of the screen but the second one at 12" long should work better.  I've got two 8" versions fitted, one in each rear window of my van and people certainly notice me braking now!

 

How did you attach them?  I have a clubby estate so same door set-up

[unburntfuelinthemorning]

 

Consider fitting one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.c...SAF1QRT1D1XH65R

 

or one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.c...ABTK7W58E6KB9J5

 

in the top of the rear window.  The first one is 24" long and may not work with the curvature of the screen but the second one at 12" long should work better.  I've got two 8" versions fitted, one in each rear window of my van and people certainly notice me braking now!

 

How did you attach them?  I have a clubby estate so same door set-up

 

They're self-adhesive but I didn't trust that so have made some brackets to hold them on.

 

Haven't worked out how to neaten the wiring yet.

 

Edited by unburntfuelinthemorning, 26 January 2019 - 12:40 PM.