156 replies to this topic

[Sprocket]

it is clear now.

 

there is a problem with the throttle body, the TPS and the stepper motor.

 

The ECU controls the stepper motor (zero), but the TPS does not respond. I saw it earlier in the screenshot above, you have now confirmed.

 

Questions?

• Does the stepper motor move the throttle completely closed?
• Does the TPS measure the throttle completely closed?
• Has throttle/ stepper mechanism been altered in any way?

 

Investigate TPS, Throttle Body and Stepper motor.

 

Injector housing can be moved clear with fuel pipes connected, 4 screws.

 

 

 

 

 

Stepper motor can be removed, 4 small screws.

 

 

 

 

Check the free movement of the spindle. You can remove 2 large screws and remove the stepper motor. Check the movement of the cam mechanism

 

 

 

 

Check stepper motor electrically.

 

 

 

 

Check that the throttle valve is completely closed with the spring pressure.

 

TPS can be removed, 2 screws. Check arm engaged with throttle lever OK. Check arm total free movement and spring return

[FlyingScot]

Excellent work Sprocket and logical (as always) step by step to determine what is not functioning as it should.
A great demonstration of the the power of the new software for MEMS but as always you need to know what it is telling you (or not)

FS

Edited by FlyingScot, 04 March 2018 - 05:20 PM.

[gdudu]

I've dismonted all injection

I've checked the stepper, all seem OK electrically with 16.5 ohms between pole 2 & other poles. 

The movement of the cam mechanism seem to be ok, competely free. I didn't try to make move electrically with a 1.5V battery perhaps ?

 

I've checked the throttle potentiometer, OK electrically with a lineat resistance of 0 to 5.2 Kohms, compltely dismounted out of the body

 

I've remounted and made another log file, leaving heated. We can see that iac_position is moving down slowly with temp, or when I accelerate it move down a little. I've made engine stalls, to see

Picture of all the log file, and a zoom on the stalls. The iac seem to not reaction when I make the engine stall

Or very very slowly (perhaps need more than 2 minutes to adjust speed iddle ?)

Attached Files

•  Motor stated cold and heating.jpg   35.1K   1 downloads
•  some accel and stall.jpg   33.17K   1 downloads
•  2018-03-04_17.38.txt   442K   3 downloads

Edited by gdudu, 04 March 2018 - 06:27 PM.

[genpop]

Edited by genpop, 04 March 2018 - 06:42 PM.

[Sprocket]

This is the problem

 

 

 

If you are confident Stepper and throttle work correctly, problem is TPS its self or wiring, maybe even ECU TPS input. Not sure what reding to expect when TPS is disconnected, depends on ECU circuit.

 

Maybe run test with TPS removed from throttle body and connected to wiring? operate TPS full scale. Make log. If TPS returns good value, then Throttle body is problem.

 

 

 

Also notice "Idlesetpoint" is ~32. (@genpop what is this and how does it affect? how to apply or remove?)

 

[gdudu]

Ah, thanks you're rigth

I will make tomorrow other log without accelerate, it will be more accurate for the throttle angle, and will do this in the motor, to watch the stepper

Then I could confirm (or infirm) that the stepper is physicaly working

I could also dismount completely the stepper. I didn't remove the cam, only move spindle outside, not inside cause the cam was there. Perhaps could I try the stepper electrically with a 1.5V battery ?

 

My trottle body seem good. I've blowed in (when dismounted) and it was airtigth (almost, I didn't think it could be so airtigth)

[genpop]

go to all readings and hover over idlesetpoint

[Sprocket]

I could also dismount completely the stepper. I didn't remove the cam, only move spindle outside, not inside cause the cam was there. Perhaps could I try the stepper electrically with a 1.5V battery ?

Stepper motor is 12v, but is 4 separate motors in one. Each motor is energised alternately in sequence that moves motor shaft a defined angle each step. Simply applying voltage will not work. If all resistance is equal, then motor is good, but ECU may have fault.

 

Use MEMS-ROSCO to drive open and closed stepper, as before. Audible clicks (normal) should only be heard at "Full Open" or "Full Closed".

 

When stepper set to zero, check throttle disc closed completely. At zero steps push pin inwards to ensure it sits against the cam gear (see picture posted earlier). Is there a gap between pin and idle stop screw?

 

as requested, remove TPS from Throttle Body, connect to wiring, make log so we can see.

[gdudu]

I've dismounted once again all my injection, and the stepper. I've made the motor work outside the body and outside the cam, it is really OK, about 10 laps in one way for a step of 25% with MemsRosco (iddle bypass position).

I've tryed it in the body with the cam, it's OK too. The spindle is moving on all course.

 

I've checked the throttle potentiometre, in the body, and out the body plugged in the car, it seem OK too :

voltage is between 0,5 and 4,7V in the body

voltage is between 0,2 and 5V out of the body

 

I've remonted all and reseted my MEMS (ign. 2 and pump until a noise of stepper)

when starting, the iddle was fast and was pumping a lot. I've resorbed this with MemsRosco (thanks Leopold) and speed_iddle_plus or minus.

It seem better now, with iddle stable at 850 rpm, and iddlesetpoint = 56 and idleaircontpos = 60 to 70 (I don't know what are thoses values)

Attached Files

•  Stable iddle.jpg   32.46K   1 downloads
•  2018-03-06_11.34.txt   314.47K   1 downloads
•  resorbing pumping with Iddle speed.jpg   32.46K   1 downloads
•  Iddle pumping.jpg   43.88K   3 downloads
•  Throttle voltage out and in the body.jpg   34.26K   1 downloads
•  2018-03-06_11.52.txt   46.84K   2 downloads

Edited by gdudu, 06 March 2018 - 01:28 PM.

[gdudu]

My last logs, after a real reset of MEMS, with readmems (0x0F and 0xFA)

One log file at idle, leaving the motor heat, other logfile on the road 5mn

I am unable to interpret the data, only that my STFT is always around 90%

Attached Files

•  2018-03-07_19.12 Idle only - Cold start.txt   238.09K   4 downloads
•  2018-03-07_19.23 5 min on the road - Hot.txt   164.51K   4 downloads

Edited by gdudu, 07 March 2018 - 07:08 PM.

[Sprocket]

Something has changed.

 

Please try adjusting the idle stop screw. Make small changes and wait. "idleairContPos" is still high but not as high as it was. It must go below 55. The only way to do this is to extend the idle stop screw. RPM will increase. Let ECU adapt

[gdudu]

Here it is, the idleairContPos is about 37, and idleHot = 35

No problem to do this, I can even go below

The log file when I've do this is attached  2018-03-08_12.33 reglage Idle air contpos.txt   174.85K   11 downloads

[Sprocket]

I am happy now with idle control. Good Job

 

I am not so worried about STFT because the Lambda sensor voltage fluctuates well. If you want to try some things, OK. If you want to try the technical control, I let you decide. Last test not far for Pass.

Things to try solve STFT

• replace air filter with good quality known brand
• Smoke test exhaust system. look for leaks
• measure the fuel pressure
• identify the part number of the injector

Exhaust Leak before Lambda Sonde affect STFT

Exhaust Leak after Lambda Sonde make bad technical control test result, even with engine OK. (High O2 or Lambda value)

 

 

 

If you decide to take technical control, make sure the engine is completely warm. The oil temperature indicates a better engine temperature. Rover requires an oil temperature of 80c. The test equipment sometimes includes a temperature sensor to replace the dipstick. Make sure a long ride before the test, drive angry to get a hot catalytic converter, start the test very soon after.

 

 

 

Other things. Catalytic converter could be bad. Catalytic converter takes O2, CO and HC and makes H20 and CO2 (secondary combustion), but Lambda Sonde must see voltage fluctuation first.

 

 

[gdudu]

Thanks a lot Sprocket, and also Martin, and Genpop (and Leopold, you must be somewhere here)

Really great help from people who knows a lot, are very generous in time, and I have learn a lot on this injection

 

I will go as soon as possible to technical control, and will give you the result 

If it's wrong, I will go again with a friend (and his car), and then it will be OK for my mini

[martinrub]

Well, at least you know thr big problem of the coolant temperature is solved!

Good luck with the test.