41 replies to this topic

[Dusky]

As gazza says , I'd never use red coolant with Brass (soldered) radiators.
Valvoline sells unmixed antifreeze for our cars

[gazza82]

I also always mix with De-ionised (distilled) water. I live in a hard water area and saw the state of a radiator at my local Alfa specialists ... clogged doesn't do it justice!

[DeadSquare]

I didn't read that all, but I am aware that the Evans stuff is 100% Glycol, which isn't too good for heat transfer (they quote ^ 0.64-ish) but having read some of that, why would you use such muck.

 

I have also consistently read of many who have experienced hotter running when using this stuff.

 

I think it could be OK if - IF - the entire engine cooling system, from the drain plug to the cylinder head was designed from the outset for it, but why bother when there's clearly better proven products about that would do the job well and need less space to do so.

 

 

It is odd, the way seemingly useless bits of information that stick in the mind.

 

A throw-away remark by a master at prep-school, was that 50 / 50 water & glycol freezes at -40F or -40C, where as pure glycol freezes at +11F or -11C.

 

The Merlin engine ran on pure Glycol, not used as an antifreeze, but because it boils at about twice the boiling point of water, so the system didn't have to be pressurised for altitude's reduction in boiling the point of water;  therefore, should the cooling system get a leak, it didn't erupt like an F1 winners presentation.

 

Turning to the topic of Mini thermostat housings (and later water pumps), have you noticed that because of the electrical insulation of the gasket, a circuit forms through the cooling solution and the aluminium forms a white layer around the studs, often making the removal of the housing impossible.

[Miki Leyland]

I have an alluminium side radiator mounted in my 998 A+...

 

in my case what would be the chances to suffer from any problem with the IAT/Bluecol and what if using OAT? 

 

And in the case of a MPI using IAT/Bluecol?

 

Thanks

[OzOAP]

Theyre banned here in Belgium too (for racing use), waterless coolant (wich I believe) is 100% glycol is even explicitly mentioned, because of the slippery tracks if/when spilled.

Antifreeze does not evaporate. When I ran Porsche SuperCup cars we were banned from running any form of antifreeze. Our race was always the one directly before the F1 Grand Prix. If a few Porsches hit each other, (which they often did), and lost 22 litres of antifreeze each, every GP would have been delayed due to the clear up.

[Homersimpson]

 

mm so what coolant is that then?

 

interesting should be green

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Antifreeze

 

 

but to me there has always been alloy in the system so why anything special due to an alloy rad?

 

I do have the specific coolant equivalent - somewhere!

 

Clearly, what I posted up, being an addendum in 1999, some 3 years down the 'Alloy Radiator' - actually aluminum - road, and was right inside the front cover, I'd have a reasonably accurate guess that there were 'issues'.

 

The Thermostat Housing and Water Pump are 'alloy' and are sacrificial anodes. They behave differently to the Aluminum of a Radiator.

 

I've mentioned this before and regrettably others turned in to a bun fight, so the thread was pulled (I think). I trust that this will not go the same way.

 

The Cast Iron used in the MPI blocks and all other car engine blocks that were factory designed to be fitted up with Aluminum Radiators have an added alloy in the Cast Iron to make them compatible with the Aluminum Radiator.

 

The Metro's when first released, were fitted with Aluminum Radiators, however, about 18 months down that track, after the issues these caused, they went over to Copper / Brass Radiators for this very reason.

 

The issue as I understand it and have seen is that by electrolysis the aluminum slowly plates the cooling circuit of the cast iron block with aluminum oxide - hardly conducive to transmitting heat.  I have a block here from an engine that ran an Aluminum Radiator, when you look at the cooling circuit, instead of the usually rusty iron or dull grey colour, this one is matt white.

 

I know loads of people have Aluminum Radiators fitted up and they seemly go fine, at least for a while. Personally, I wouldn't touch one, unless it was with an MPI Block, but even then, I'd think twice.

 

<EDIT: On this topic, I don't mind discussing it, but I'm not going to debate it. If fitting an Aluminum Radiator is want you'd like to do, then, sure, knock your socks off. >

 

Hi Moke Spider, I know this is an old thread that has been revived but I was reading with interest your post about not using an aluminimum radiator with certain types of engine.

 

On a non mini subject i'm concidering buying a cheap e-bay aluminium radiator for a MK2 Jag as it won't get used much and they cost a round £130 on there but a good rebuild of the old one is going to be circa £300 plus I need a new core unit to rebuilt as mine has rotted at the bottom and someone has sawn off the filler neck..

 

https://www.ebay.co....a0d8fa2899642f4

 

 

The Mk2 Jag enginer has an aluminium alloy cylinder head, would this be compatible with an aluminium radiator, what would I need to look out for?  I know this is a non mini question but if I ask it on the Jaguar forums I probably won't get a reply.

[Spider]

 

Hi Moke Spider, I know this is an old thread that has been revived but I was reading with interest your post about not using an aluminimum radiator with certain types of engine.

 

On a non mini subject i'm concidering buying a cheap e-bay aluminium radiator for a MK2 Jag as it won't get used much and they cost a round £130 on there but a good rebuild of the old one is going to be circa £300 plus I need a new core unit to rebuilt as mine has rotted at the bottom and someone has sawn off the filler neck..

 

https://www.ebay.co....a0d8fa2899642f4

 

 

The Mk2 Jag enginer has an aluminium alloy cylinder head, would this be compatible with an aluminium radiator, what would I need to look out for?  I know this is a non mini question but if I ask it on the Jaguar forums I probably won't get a reply.

 

 

 

Hey Homer !

 

It's not an engine I'm familiar with nor have any info on, so I can't offer any specific advice here.

 

As a general comment, I'll say you'll probably be OK, if it were me, I'd probably look in to the make up of the Alloy Material used in the Head Casting and check that's comparable with the grade of Aluminum of the Radiator first.

 

Perhaps jump on some of the Jag pages and ask what other's long term experiences have been - your comment here is noted, but you can only ask !   Maybe find a US based Forum and ask there.

[Homersimpson]

 

 

Hi Moke Spider, I know this is an old thread that has been revived but I was reading with interest your post about not using an aluminimum radiator with certain types of engine.

 

On a non mini subject i'm concidering buying a cheap e-bay aluminium radiator for a MK2 Jag as it won't get used much and they cost a round £130 on there but a good rebuild of the old one is going to be circa £300 plus I need a new core unit to rebuilt as mine has rotted at the bottom and someone has sawn off the filler neck..

 

https://www.ebay.co....a0d8fa2899642f4

 

 

The Mk2 Jag enginer has an aluminium alloy cylinder head, would this be compatible with an aluminium radiator, what would I need to look out for?  I know this is a non mini question but if I ask it on the Jaguar forums I probably won't get a reply.

 

 

 

Hey Homer !

 

It's not an engine I'm familiar with nor have any info on, so I can't offer any specific advice here.

 

As a general comment, I'll say you'll probably be OK, if it were me, I'd probably look in to the make up of the Alloy Material used in the Head Casting and check that's comparable with the grade of Aluminum of the Radiator first.

 

Perhaps jump on some of the Jag pages and ask what other's long term experiences have been - your comment here is noted, but you can only ask !   Maybe find a US based Forum and ask there.

 

Thanks Moke, I appreciate you can't give any cast iron (pun intended) gurantees on compatability.  Not being a person with any knowledge of metals are differnt types of aluminium not compatible with each other? Any idea where can I find more information on this?

 

I'm on a few of the Jaguar forums and have found that the people on there don't have the same level of knowledge as you get on here as they don't tend to do much to their cars, there was one guy who proported to be an expert and convinced another member to let him rebuild his engine, it last 12 miles and siezed solid. 

 

The strip down revealed that it was full of wood shavings and the "expert" had put the inlet and exhaust valves in backwards (i.e. swapped over).  How on earth he did this is beyond me but the stripdown photos showed it all.

[Spider]

Homer - yes, I think we've all seen those kinds of xpurts - x being the unknown factort and the spurt being the drip under pressure.

 

I was looking for a Galvanic Table to put up, however, there's a good Wiki page on the subject, with good, easy to understand explanations;-

 

https://en.wikipedia...on#Anodic_index

 

Just be aware that the Radiator you are considering is Aluminum and the Cylinder Head (and likely other engine parts) is an Alloy of materials, some of which is likely to be Aluminum but also would likely include some Magnesium, Copper, Silicon, Zinc and other materials. Note that Magnesium is not Electrolytically compatible with Aluminum and so this is where you need to be careful as it will be the Magnesium that erodes away.

 

In my opinion, it's also vital that the cooling system be keep totally devoid of any 'air', so a header tank is a must and the water pump keep in first class condition. While not obvious and often overlooked with Water Pumps, while they will leak when they get real bad, before they get to that stage, the seals will allow Air in to the system just by the nature of the pump itself. Also, use one of a good design that does not cavitate as that makes Gas from the Coolant, Also, be sure not to fit any Stainless Steel components to the cooling system.

 

[DUF2]

I have just read through this whole thread and am even more confused! Yes I know that is easy.

OK I have a ‘65 Elf with the original heater and I believe the original heater matrix, the engine is a ‘89 1275 A+ The radiator is a replacement radiator with aluminum & plastic header tanks.

I am currently flushing out the crap in the cooling system the heater and the radiator were flushed before being fitted, but suspect there is still a bit of crap in the waterways within the block.

which antifreeze should I use?

[gazza82]

which antifreeze should I use?

Glycol based .. usually blue (but can be green)

OAT is the more modern stuff but I think this has a problem with copper and soldered rads. Most moderns are plastic and OAT works better with alloy blocks/heads I understand.

[Spider]

which antifreeze should I use?

 

Yes, it's a ripe chemistry set there !

Gazza's advice here is good. I'd also suggest you find your preferred brand of coolant and look up their recommendations. Most are very good and can be quite specific regarding the combination of metals and what's most compatible.