75 replies to this topic

[koss]

Fast build mate. just wondering the reason behind the relay is it so the pump knoks off when its up to pressure or am i missing something?

I have the normal ignition swich and then a big red cut off swich with starter button when its turned on runs the fuel pump constant am i doing any harm?

[philmin]

[quote name='philmin' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:57 PM' post='351205']
[quote name='markrally73' post='350920' date='Sep 24 2006, 11:44 AM']
[quote name='philmin' post='350743' date='Sep 23 2006, 11:19 PM']

Are you running it via a relay? Or is there no need?

thanks for the help
phil.
[/quote]

You should have a relay in your loom already to power the original R1 pump but if you have only got a fuel pump output from the ECU, you had better run a relay.

Cheers
[/quote]

thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.

[quote name='pete' post='351098' date='Sep 24 2006, 06:50 PM']
Not running it through the bike ecu. Connected via a relay to an ignition live. Should really have one of those cut off switches in case of an accident but couldn't be bothered to fit one . Not planning on crashing it .
[/quote]


thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.

[quote name='philmin' post='351205' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:51 PM']
[quote name='markrally73' post='350920' date='Sep 24 2006, 11:44 AM']
[quote name='philmin' post='350743' date='Sep 23 2006, 11:19 PM']

Are you running it via a relay? Or is there no need?

thanks for the help
phil.
[/quote]

You should have a relay in your loom already to power the original R1 pump but if you have only got a fuel pump output from the ECU, you had better run a relay.

Cheers
[/quote]

thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.

[quote name='pete' post='351098' date='Sep 24 2006, 06:50 PM']
Not running it through the bike ecu. Connected via a relay to an ignition live. Should really have one of those cut off switches in case of an accident but couldn't be bothered to fit one . Not planning on crashing it .
[/quote]


thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.
[/quote]

Are you off to combe next weekend ? its miniworld action day isn't it?


[quote name='philmin' post='351205' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:52 PM']
[quote name='markrally73' post='350920' date='Sep 24 2006, 11:44 AM']
[quote name='philmin' post='350743' date='Sep 23 2006, 11:19 PM']

Are you running it via a relay? Or is there no need?

thanks for the help
phil.
[/quote]

You should have a relay in your loom already to power the original R1 pump but if you have only got a fuel pump output from the ECU, you had better run a relay.

Cheers
[/quote]

thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.

[quote name='pete' post='351098' date='Sep 24 2006, 06:50 PM']
Not running it through the bike ecu. Connected via a relay to an ignition live. Should really have one of those cut off switches in case of an accident but couldn't be bothered to fit one . Not planning on crashing it .
[/quote]


thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.

[quote name='philmin' post='351205' date='Sep 24 2006, 09:51 PM']
[quote name='markrally73' post='350920' date='Sep 24 2006, 11:44 AM']
[quote name='philmin' post='350743' date='Sep 23 2006, 11:19 PM']

Are you running it via a relay? Or is there no need?

thanks for the help
phil.
[/quote]

You should have a relay in your loom already to power the original R1 pump but if you have only got a fuel pump output from the ECU, you had better run a relay.

Cheers
[/quote]

thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.

[quote name='pete' post='351098' date='Sep 24 2006, 06:50 PM']
Not running it through the bike ecu. Connected via a relay to an ignition live. Should really have one of those cut off switches in case of an accident but couldn't be bothered to fit one . Not planning on crashing it .
[/quote]


thanks guys - need to go through what wires are what then that Chris labelled for me, have a feeling that to demo it running to me he just connected the fuel pump to the battery directly? but I wasn't taking that much notice - had been up since 3am that morning to get to him from Cardif - long way in a c****y van!

not looking forward to fitting the cut off either - its easy enough in a normal mini - had the fuel pressure cut off, oil pressure cut off and the alternator protected - all via the cut-off - want to aim to do the same again really - want it so a scrutineer can't complain ultimately.
[/quote]

Are you off to combe next weekend ? its miniworld action day isn't it?
[/quote]

that questions to everyone with bike engined minis (BEM's?). Want to see how it all fits together - won't be pinching ideas though - got my own - ta.
phil
[/quote]

Seem to keep replying to my own threads - not sure what that says about me

More fuel pump questions - been reading http://jbabs714.tripod.com/
- injection systems are brand new to me sorry - only used to good old SU's

Want to get the flow sequence right in my head..
fuel tank
fuel filter (low pressure cheap one?)
high pressure fuel pump (the bosch one mentioned above)
injection fuel filter (the expensive one)
fuel injection rail
excess fuel return to tank

In this system:
How does the fuel get from the tank to the high pressure fuel pump ? Do I need a primary low pressure fuel pump? if so what psi is needed to be produced by it?

If I use an injection fuel filter after the pump, I will be reducing the psi coming from that pump because of drag caused by the filter - would like to think that this isn't going to reduce psi by 57 (100 output from pump minus 43 required to run R1) is it?

Thanks for the help guys - Sunday night ramblings eh? No wonder I can never get to sleep!

Have one on me whoever answers this
http://www.stargazet...beer-766877.jpg

[Bounce]

Havnt got an answer for you mate. Just letting you know that you dont need to keep quoting everything. Just hit the add reply button and people will understand what you mean


Nice build by the way

[philmin]

Fast build mate. just wondering the reason behind the relay is it so the pump knoks off when its up to pressure or am i missing something?

I have the normal ignition swich and then a big red cut off swich with starter button when its turned on runs the fuel pump constant am i doing any harm?

Not fast enough for my liking Can't wait - Missus is due on Mon - will be happy to hear it run b4 baby is born at this rate.

I am the wrong person to ask really, as I understand it relays just switch a high current device by using a low current switch, thats all. It's a safety thing as far as I understand it - better than running massively thick wires around your car carrying heaps of current.

Re your set up - if it works for you I would leave it alone to be honest. Myself, I have just bought one of these - (type it into ebay) 270030135447. No idea how to fit it - but thats part of the fun with projects isn't it That's just the beginning for me - If I come off the track and can't get out cause I have hit a tree or the shell has bent and I can't open my door - I don't want to hear the sound of gushing fuel over a hot engine behind my head. Unless I have a positive mechanism to stop this I won't be happy taking it on track days or hillclimbs (in fact the scrutineer wouldn't let me run on a hillclimb)

I am guessing some other people have been competing with BEM's for while now so I am going to find them on this site and ask some questions - you have to bear in mind with my ramblings above that I have never driven RWD before let alone at speed so an off is inevitable I would say

Take it easy
phil


Got it Bounce! cheers - thanks for the comments - I was losing my way a bit - new to forums as well - where have I been - the planet Zarg obviously

[pete]

In this system:
How does the fuel get from the tank to the high pressure fuel pump ? Do I need a primary low pressure fuel pump? if so what psi is needed to be produced by it?

If I use an injection fuel filter after the pump, I will be reducing the psi coming from that pump because of drag caused by the filter - would like to think that this isn't going to reduce psi by 57 (100 output from pump minus 43 required to run R1) is it?

Thanks for the help guys - Sunday night ramblings eh? No wonder I can never get to sleep!

Have one on me whoever answers this
http://www.stargazet...beer-766877.jpg

Outlet from tank straight into a filter and then into the pump. Mount them both low down next to the tank and this will give you sufficient pressure at the engine. No need for a low pressure pump. If the pump your using gives 100psi then you may need a pressure regulator to reduce it a bit.

[philmin]

In this system:
How does the fuel get from the tank to the high pressure fuel pump ? Do I need a primary low pressure fuel pump? if so what psi is needed to be produced by it?

If I use an injection fuel filter after the pump, I will be reducing the psi coming from that pump because of drag caused by the filter - would like to think that this isn't going to reduce psi by 57 (100 output from pump minus 43 required to run R1) is it?

Thanks for the help guys - Sunday night ramblings eh? No wonder I can never get to sleep!

Have one on me whoever answers this
http://www.stargazet...beer-766877.jpg

Outlet from tank straight into a filter and then into the pump. Mount them both low down next to the tank and this will give you sufficient pressure at the engine. No need for a low pressure pump. If the pump your using gives 100psi then you may need a pressure regulator to reduce it a bit.

Thanks mate -
what psi is the pump you use ? 0580464070 - I will probably order one of these tomorrow.

[koss]

i used a ford type rs turbo/cosworth straight to injecor rail but the car was only doing 12mpg
then i noticed loads of black soot on the back of the car to rich the pump s running at @ 65psi
41psi is ideal for the r1 so i fitted a fes pressure reg running mint now

the pump was £79 and the reg was £45 ebay. it would be easy i you can find a pump that puts out 41psi like
the one off the bike maybe mounted to the bottom of the z cars tank.

[Alburglar]

mine is carb, but I just went for the standard bike pump as it was the cheapest.

[philmin]

thanks both - went for the one pete recommended - just need to get hold of a filter now to go between the tank and pump that has two 12mm ends and is cheap.

the pump has a 12mm inlet and 8mm outlet.

just bought a gel battery - nice change from the HUGE batteries you get on cars

[pete]

thanks both - went for the one pete recommended - just need to get hold of a filter now to go between the tank and pump that has two 12mm ends and is cheap.

the pump has a 12mm inlet and 8mm outlet.

just bought a gel battery - nice change from the HUGE batteries you get on cars

Don't think anythings cheap when your building one of these :'( :'(

Filter came from burton power but was about £50. Alloy can about the same size as the pump and you can choose what size ends you want on it.
The pump works at about 45psi so quite close to what the engine needs. When we went to Brands Hatch in them we calculated that they were averaging 34mpg.

[philmin]

thanks both - went for the one pete recommended - just need to get hold of a filter now to go between the tank and pump that has two 12mm ends and is cheap.

the pump has a 12mm inlet and 8mm outlet.

just bought a gel battery - nice change from the HUGE batteries you get on cars

Don't think anythings cheap when your building one of these :'( :'(

Filter came from burton power but was about £50. Alloy can about the same size as the pump and you can choose what size ends you want on it.
The pump works at about 45psi so quite close to what the engine needs. When we went to Brands Hatch in them we calculated that they were averaging 34mpg.

Cool - thanks for this - I may get that filter too. I will have a shop around first, but doubtless you probably did that as well. I have a 1 gal tank left over from my previous hillclimbing with a 6mm outlet but I think it will slow the fuel rate to the pump down too much. My current plan is to (I think) sell the ZCars tank and sell my tank. I think I found a guy on ebay that can make alloy tanks by hand (so can probably make to measure), and after that have enough funds left over to buy some ballast foam. Unless I am really pikey and nick it from the tank I am about to sell Phew!

My main worry is that I will need a decent amount of fuel in the tank to stop surge problems (or use a swirl pot of some sort) and that if I crash I could well be in the situation where I have fuel leaking from both the tank at the front and the fuel rail at the back - not good. At least with a smaller tank + foam I can limit the effects somewhat.

It will be a while before I hillclimb this though - got to complete it first then shake it down, and then get a scrutineer to look over it - I can see at least ten problems I will need to iron out. Fluid and flameproof bulkheads and sensible harness fixings for a start, Chris put me a bar in for the harness shoulder mounts, but on reflection, I don't think I am happy with the strength of it. Also the kit means that the strength of the lap eyebolts that would normally be used for the harness have been comprimised a little in my opinion. Hopefully there will be some good stuff at Combe this weekend to look at and see how it's done.

[Alburglar]

My advise would be, if you're considering making a tank then you can save some money and make a simple effective swirl pot at the same time. Drill acouple of holes in the bottom of your tank and then weld a small box (say 100mmx100x100) over the holes. then have your fuel outlet coming out of this box. The box will be baffled and act like a swirl pot.

[philmin]

My advise would be, if you're considering making a tank then you can save some money and make a simple effective swirl pot at the same time. Drill acouple of holes in the bottom of your tank and then weld a small box (say 100mmx100x100) over the holes. then have your fuel outlet coming out of this box. The box will be baffled and act like a swirl pot.

thats a bit ingenious - and definately worth a thought - think there is an aluminium welding place by me somewhere..

thanks mate!

[philmin]

I have decided to use the one gall tank, sell the z cars tank and use the burtonpower fuel filter that seems to be the norm.

I am going to take mine to an ally welder and get a new outlet put on, that will let me mount the smaller tank higher and bring the pump and filter further inboard. I am then going to fit a sump guard I have shortened that will complete the containment cell for the fuel and pipes giving max protection for it in I have an off. Lovely!

[philmin]

 IMAG0389.JPG   1.27MB   78 downloads  IMAG0413.JPG   891.2K   19 downloadsprogress slow but fitted fuel system and cooling (nearly)

aim is to start it this weekend.