11 replies to this topic

[Kevinmini]

Hi I have a sip migmate 130 and as its classed as a hobby welder I'm not sure if it's up to the job of bodywork / panel replacement. I have seen some of the welding on here from these sort of welders so some advice from users would be great.

If it would be quicker easier and more efficient using a more expensive mig welder with a decent sized gas bottle would this be the best route?

Thanks kev

[Jgguinness]

A decent gas bottle size will definitely work out much cheaper than using those tiny little ones.

I've an account with BOC, a bottle of Argoshield Light size X is about £20 and costs £6 per month for the rental.

Welder wise I had one of those SIP's but couldn't get on with it. I've now got a GYS Smartmig 162, it's about £400, bottle sits on the back, takes 5kg sized wire reels and I get good results with it.

It's quite a compact welder so doesn't take much space up.

https://www.weldequi...martmig-162.htm

Jonny

Edited by Jgguinness, 23 April 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[sonikk4]

Clarke 135TE Turbo will do the job nicely if on a budget plus Machinemart are doing their VAT free nights again so even cheaper.

 

I also use the Argoshield Light size Y though. 

[Icey]

The SIP will have more than enough power to do everything on a Mini. The biggest problem you'll have is that their wire feed mechanisms are terrible. I have a SIP clone that I'll only ever use fluxcore in (.8mm) as it's all those things will reliable drive (it's thick and soft, so the rollers can grip it). I've used SIPs with the typical .6mm steel wire in and when they work they are fine, but more often than not, the feed is unpredictable.

 

If you're just about to start out on a large project, I'd opt to go for a Clarke unit with a decent gas bottle - you'll save yourself alot of bother (and time with the grinder!).

[tiger99]

And don't even think about going gassless for car bodywork. The quality of the welds will not be satisfactory.

[castafiore]

We now have a Cebora mig, bought because our Saab project needs a huge amount of welding, but years ago had a small Clarke Mig. The more expensive ones are more versatile and will weld thicker metal but the one you mention should be fine. The gas bottles last literally a few minutes and end up costing you a fortune - if it's a project car that needs a lot of welding you need to be on the Volkszone BOC deal mentioned above or look for another deal. Gasless welding looks pretty rough and you will be frustrated at the quality of the results.

The Mig Welding UK Forum is a great resource too.

Edited by castafiore, 24 April 2017 - 06:51 PM.

[minimans]

Is it still the case that you cannot own your own gas bottles? I remember when I was a lad growing up in the UK that rental was the only option back then?

[Icey]

And don't even think about going gassless for car bodywork. The quality of the welds will not be satisfactory.

You can do it, I've done a lot of sheet metal work with fluxcore but it's a pain. Because you can only get it in 0.8mm you are always fighting current, you simply can't run continuous welds on anything less than ~2mm thickness as you'll be blowing holes all over the show. You have to switch to pulse style welding and that requires a good wire feed. My crappy SIP clone would have no chance doing it if I put on a 5kg drum! And let's not mention the splatter, nothing will save you or the surrounding metal from that!

 

Is it still the case that you cannot own your own gas bottles? I remember when I was a lad growing up in the UK that rental was the only option back then?

No, there are a few companies now doing 'rental free' systems so you don't need to pay the monthly fees. Price per refill is a little higher but still a better deal for hobbyists.

[Daz1968]

My experience of the gas bottles is that a boc rental agreement on a y sized hobby deal works out cheaper if you use more than one hobbyweld sized cylinder per year. The boc bottle is approx 4 times the gas volume with similar refill price so the rental is soon lost when using gas, another advantage is being boc they always have stock and swapping cylinders is easy.
You need to look at cylinder suppliers paperwork as some are basically only on a 2 year lease if you don't return them for refill, and they are still a lot more expensive than boc

[tiger99]

Some of that is due to the required time between safety tests of the cylinders, so they need them back from time to time to stay within the law. That has become more important as the pressure has been increased over the years, and cylinders have become lighter. Still safe, if treated properly. But Acetylene worries me, so I have done without a gas axe so far....

 

I use BOC, with no problems at all, and once you have an account you can always have an extra cylinder, e.g . pure Argon for TIG, any time you want. You only pay rental, by the month, for the time you have it.

 

But I find the approach of Air Products quite interesting. They supply the cylinders with integrated regulators, so the whole thing gets checked and periodically serviced when they go back for a refill. I expect that there are extra costs involved, but it does mean that you don't have to worry about a broken regulator, or buy it in the first place, and it is safer, because the valve and regulator are well protected. A cause of accidents with non-flammable gas cylinders is the cylinder becoming a rocket when it falls over and breaks the valve. Who is responsible for the cost of replacing a cylinder that becomes damaged or life expired, if YOU nominally own it?

 

BOC supply hospitals with small portable oxygen cylinders with integrated regulator for similar reasons, and just plain ease of use. They are very neat and not heavy. I had to carry one around with me to go to the loo.

[Mervyn]

I use pub gas and never had a problem. any local welding supplier will help you out if you don't know a pub landlord

 

£20 a refill here

 

Merv

[absx2]

As above nobody should use gasless as its a joke and you will give up before you have started.

As above pub gas is absolutely fine in all fairness but argon/ argoshield does make the welds flow better .

I use a 195 amp Murex at work and a Sealey 150/5 at home and both achieve excellent results when you are familiar with the correct settings and technique.

I have owned the little Sealey from new and its a little cracker on .6 of .8mm wire considering its a fraction of the price of the murex.

Replace the torch feed tube regularly as its one of the most common cause of crap welds due to intermittent feed speed.

Nothing wrong with a SIP 130 in good condition on 0.6-3mm sheet, ditch the earth clamp and replace with a mole grip with a bolt welded on if you have not already.