26 replies to this topic

[Northernpower]

I would not in your case (OP) change what is for all intents and purposes an almost new pump, there is no need at all and it is only a waste of money.

This would seem to agree with this thread http://www.theminifo...x/#entry3449533 as well as Cooperman. Why don't you think it will heat the oil up more.

[MRA]

 

I would not in your case (OP) change what is for all intents and purposes an almost new pump, there is no need at all and it is only a waste of money.

This would seem to agree with this thread http://www.theminifo...x/#entry3449533 as well as Cooperman. Why don't you think it will heat the oil up more.

 

I never said that it wouldn't heat the oil up more, but it won't be by any noticeable amount, it certainly won't need any further mods, the turbo pump output is approximately 20% higher and the PRV can easily handle it, if it couldn't the pressure would continue to rise and it doesn't !

 

Would I fit one to an N/A engine if all pumps are available then no not from fresh as has been said above it doesn't need it, however it is more of a benefit than not and as you already have one fitted I would not touch it, if you had done higher mileage or found debris in the strainer then I would consider changing it.

[MRA]

 

I would not in your case (OP) change what is for all intents and purposes an almost new pump, there is no need at all and it is only a waste of money.

This would seem to agree with this thread http://www.theminifo...x/#entry3449533 as well as Cooperman. Why don't you think it will heat the oil up more.

 

Also if you have a hi torque engine with high torque at low revs then the extra flow at lower revs will help to protect your engine at a slight cost in hp as the PRV starts to do its job...

[Spider]

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

[Northernpower]

 

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

 

Everybody seems to agree there's not a problem with a standard pump but there may be a problem leaving the turbo pump on therefore the decisions made, while I've got access to it, for the relatively small cost of a new standard pump I'll replace it.

[MRA]

 

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

 

what is sky high oil pressure ?  is like 10000000psi ???

[MRA]

 

 

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

 

Everybody seems to agree there's not a problem with a standard pump but there may be a problem leaving the turbo pump on therefore the decisions made, while I've got access to it, for the relatively small cost of a new standard pump I'll replace it.

 

Tell me something as you have already run the turbo pump what pressure was it running at ?

[Northernpower]

 

 

 

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

 

Everybody seems to agree there's not a problem with a standard pump but there may be a problem leaving the turbo pump on therefore the decisions made, while I've got access to it, for the relatively small cost of a new standard pump I'll replace it.

 

Tell me something as you have already run the turbo pump what pressure was it running at ?

 

I'm not being sarcastic when I say whatever I wanted it to run at, it has an adjustable relief valve on it. The problem I have is its very marginal on cooling at continuous high revs. I'm sure its not just one thing that's making it run hot but if there's a possibility the turbo pump is contributing to this then for the relatively small cost of a replacement its something I'm going to try.

[MRA]

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

 

Everybody seems to agree there's not a problem with a standard pump but there may be a problem leaving the turbo pump on therefore the decisions made, while I've got access to it, for the relatively small cost of a new standard pump I'll replace it.

 

Tell me something as you have already run the turbo pump what pressure was it running at ?

 

I'm not being sarcastic when I say whatever I wanted it to run at, it has an adjustable relief valve on it. The problem I have is its very marginal on cooling at continuous high revs. I'm sure its not just one thing that's making it run hot but if there's a possibility the turbo pump is contributing to this then for the relatively small cost of a replacement its something I'm going to try.

 

That's a one off then because it was quite common practice to remove the turbo system in the 80's and 90's if it developed a fault and there was never a problem with sky high oil pressures.

 

This is how a PRV works.... it sees pressure and it stays closed, it sees pressure that is higher than the spring and it opens, if the flow was too high the pressure would simply keep on increasing until it failed somewhere at such a pressure that it would leak out every pressure joint first, such as between the pump and block etc.....  this never happened, and running a turbo pump will give you benefits if you run low revs under load !

 

How much HP does it take to drive an oil pump ?  well at the pressures and flows in an A series engine it is less than 0.75kw now your normal petrol engine is at best 33% efficient an A series is about 25% efficient therefore if your engine kicks out 100kw the cooling system, exhaust etc is seeing 200kw of heat !!!  you need not worry about any heat the turbo pump will create and unless you are racing competitively worrying about the extra power consumption is simply a worry too far.

[Northernpower]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

 

Everybody seems to agree there's not a problem with a standard pump but there may be a problem leaving the turbo pump on therefore the decisions made, while I've got access to it, for the relatively small cost of a new standard pump I'll replace it.

 

Tell me something as you have already run the turbo pump what pressure was it running at ?

 

I'm not being sarcastic when I say whatever I wanted it to run at, it has an adjustable relief valve on it. The problem I have is its very marginal on cooling at continuous high revs. I'm sure its not just one thing that's making it run hot but if there's a possibility the turbo pump is contributing to this then for the relatively small cost of a replacement its something I'm going to try.

 

That's a one off then because it was quite common practice to remove the turbo system in the 80's and 90's if it developed a fault and there was never a problem with sky high oil pressures.

 

This is how a PRV works.... it sees pressure and it stays closed, it sees pressure that is higher than the spring and it opens, if the flow was too high the pressure would simply keep on increasing until it failed somewhere at such a pressure that it would leak out every pressure joint first, such as between the pump and block etc.....  this never happened, and running a turbo pump will give you benefits if you run low revs under load !

 

How much HP does it take to drive an oil pump ?  well at the pressures and flows in an A series engine it is less than 0.75kw now your normal petrol engine is at best 33% efficient an A series is about 25% efficient therefore if your engine kicks out 100kw the cooling system, exhaust etc is seeing 200kw of heat !!!  you need not worry about any heat the turbo pump will create and unless you are racing competitively worrying about the extra power consumption is simply a worry too far.

 

Ok, thanks for your comments and analysis.

[Spider]

 

 

 

I've seen a few engines fitted with the Turbo Pumps where the OPR Valve couldn't cope with the additional Oil Volume being Pumped.

 

Pumping more oil than needed or put another way, than can flow in to the Lube Circuit of the Engine only means it's being dumped (or attempted to) down the OPR Valve and in do so heating the oil as well as sapping power from the engine to do so.

What did you see that made you come up with your deduction ?

 

 

Sky high Oil Pressure even with the OPR Valve bucket removed at ~1000 rpms.

 

Cure:- Standard Oil Pump and everything as it should be.

 

what is sky high oil pressure ?  is like 10000000psi ???

 

 

>100 PSI where the gauge maxes out.

 

If you like the pump for when it's not needed, by all means, fit one. I won't and don't. Just my experience.

Edited by Moke Spider, 10 February 2017 - 06:49 PM.

[Cooperman]

I have to say that I have run Turbo oil pumps in several 'S's built for rallying and have never had any issues at all. When I do precautionary rebuilds after several rallies the bearings are always in good condition. Bore wear is the only issue because of the high revs used all the time but that's nothing to do with the oil pump.

 

For normal road engines a Turbo pump is unnecessary, but as the Op has a virtually new one which has done few miles he will lose nothing by fitting it and will save a few quid. The OPR valve will handle the pressure at cold and once the engine is warm it will just give a nice pressure at all revs.