18 replies to this topic

[Riko]

Hi all,
 
I've been lurking this board sinds a few days doing some research about classic minis and more specifially the Vtec conversions :)
 
Since I am from Belgium, its not easy to do such a swap, I would even say, its nearly impossible.
But thanks to research on different board I have found a way to do a swap and still be completely legal for the state and for insurance.
So now I can keep on dreaming :)
 
My big question: how much would such a conversion cost me in total?
 
I have had contact with the 2 most famous builders in Europe:
- http://www.gracing.de/2013/home.html from Germany
- http://www.watsonsra...o.uk/index.html from the UK
 
Gracing made me an estimate, engine + kit (all parts needed) and labour.
Around 20.000 euro = about £17229
Here is also a PDF file with a listing of the parts and kits with the prices (its in German :) )
http://docdro.id/gcPHf1D
 
Than I had email contact with Watsonrally
He said £800 for a 160hp engine + £7000 for the full kit + any restoration needed.
I see on his site a full Kit for £7368 http://www.watsonsra...rsion_kits.html
His replies were not very clear yet :) but I assume that Watsons numbers do not include all the labour? ...wich would explain the huge price gap?
 
However, I am planning to buy his DVD of the DIY Vtec Mini build, just out of curiosity.. :)
 
 
Can somebody verify those numbers are more or less what to expect to do a swap on a mini (wich lets assume for the simplicity of explanation, is in itself in good condition)
 
 
Thx a lot!

[Big Sam]

Fairly sure watson use an extended nose so perhaps slight cheaper because its not as compact.

[dyshipfakta]

I read that as 7 k +800 includes the labour. ... It should

[Furyan]

If you go onto the Watsons site and click on the "Conversion Kits" icon, on the top photo of a subframe it says Basic Job, click on the little icon on the left hand column that looks like a  little fuel gauge. That will open up into the full list of whats included. It seems that £7368 includes labour at £3500. All prices are subject to VAT it seems so plus 20% UK VAT = £8842 in total for the basic kit, plus you have to supply a suitable car.

[Spider]

Why not contact them both directly and put the simple question to them - what will it cost me?

 

They'll likely come back with a list of questions, which you can then pick the eye's out of and then you'll have a more definitive answer.

[mab01uk]

Information listed below is on the Watsons 'Services' page:-

Please contact us for accurate pricing but as a  guideline for a running, drive in - out conversion for a VTEC setup...  £7000 + VAT

http://www.watsonsra.../services_.html

 

Classic Mini - Vtec Conversions
*  Please note that in order to fit a Honda Vtec engine into a Classic Mini body shell  wings and bonnet need to be extended by approx. 90 mm.
We can either provide the shell or fit our kit into one you provide.   Conversion will enable fitment of a Vtec engine and the work will be completed to your instructions. 
For example :-.
* -   Frame only 
* -  Painted Frame
* -  Engine in and rolling

The addition of 6" wheels and our modified sports pack returns the vehicle to a 'standard' appearance. Prices will vary according to your specific requirements.
Guide price for a drive in- drive out conversion is £7000 approx.

 

 

Clubman Mini - Vtec Conversion

We can either provide the shell or fit our kit into one you provide. Conversions will enable fitment of the new engine and will be complete to either
- Frame only
- Painted Frame   
- Engine in and rolling 

When fitting a Honda Vtec engine into the converted Mini Clubman. This conversion does NOT require any modification to the exterior wings or bonnet. We modify the inner wings, gearbox, alternator and lower front panels to accommodate the engine and front cross member. Guide price for a drive in- drive out conversion is £6,900 approx.

 

Mini - 'K' Series Conversion

We can either provide the shell or fit our kit into one you provide. Conversions will enable fitment of the 'K' Series engine, and will be complete to your spec.  : -
- Frame only
- Painted Frame   
- Engine in and rolling 
 This conversion does NOT require any modification to the exterior wings or bonnet. It uses all standard suspension,  steering rack and brake components. .We modify the sub frame and replace the shock absorbers, platforms, springs and rear hub converters.
Guide price for a drive in- drive out conversion is £4000 approx. * There is a £50 reduction for part exchange of the K Series frame .

Edited by mab01uk, 13 November 2016 - 10:13 AM.

[Riko]

I read that as 7 k +800 includes the labour. ... It should

Wow, thb, I would not expect it that cheap, especially after hearing Gracing in Germany estimating the whole conversion at around £17.000
 

If you go onto the Watsons site and click on the "Conversion Kits" icon, on the top photo of a subframe it says Basic Job, click on the little icon on the left hand column that looks like a  little fuel gauge. That will open up into the full list of whats included. It seems that £7368 includes labour at £3500. All prices are subject to VAT it seems so plus 20% UK VAT = £8842 in total for the basic kit, plus you have to supply a suitable car.

stupid me, I have seem to missed/overlooked that part!     
 

Damn, why is there a £10.000 price difference between Gracing in Germany and Watson?     
 

Why not contact them both directly and put the simple question to them - what will it cost me?
 
They'll likely come back with a list of questions, which you can then pick the eye's out of and then you'll have a more definitive answer.

I did that, I asked for a swap for a 160hp engine, and Gracing in Germany came with his estimate of £17.300
And he included this detailed list http://docdro.id/gcPHf1D
According to that list the full conversion kit (MTB) alone is worth about £8.600, so Gracing is finally asking £17.000 in total.
Here I conclude thats because of labour, £8.400 worth of labour.  

That kit price is what I see on Superfast Minis in the States:
http://www.superfast...inePackage.html
Its an MTB2
and on Minimania from the States:
http://www.minimania...-Mtb-Engine-Kit
Those kits are actually a bit more expensive than the MTB kit on the Gracing pricelist..

Here is me asking him on facebook:

He answered clearly with yes when i asked if thats with labour included :)

Watson would return my question for a detailed pricing asap with a complete listing he said.
But thanks to above posters I see now he did include labour in that amount of £7368 (+VAT), as can also be seen on his site.   

I can only dream and hope a full conversion in the UK would be about £9.500 cheaper than in Germany, as dyshipfakta says, for the same work :)

I will be asking Gracing whats the deal...

Update will follow.

To be continued :)

 

Thx everbody!

Edited by Riko, 13 November 2016 - 10:38 AM.

[mab01uk]

Is a large part of the extra cost in Germany to meet the much stricter requirements there to make it street legal which are not necessary in UK....yet?.....plus most German conversions of this type seem to be done to a very high standard of quality and finish with attention paid to the detail engineering of every area of the car.

 

GRacing above mention having to fit special approved rims, fender flares, final drive to meet emission tests, etc, in Germany.

Edited by mab01uk, 13 November 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[Riko]

Information listed below is on the Watsons 'Services' page:-

Please contact us for accurate pricing but as a  guideline for a running, drive in - out conversion for a VTEC setup...  £7000 + VAT

http://www.watsonsra.../services_.html

 

Classic Mini - Vtec Conversions
*  Please note that in order to fit a Honda Vtec engine into a Classic Mini body shell  wings and bonnet need to be extended by approx. 90 mm.
We can either provide the shell or fit our kit into one you provide.   Conversion will enable fitment of a Vtec engine and the work will be completed to your instructions. 
For example :-.
* -   Frame only 
* -  Painted Frame
* -  Engine in and rolling

The addition of 6" wheels and our modified sports pack returns the vehicle to a 'standard' appearance. Prices will vary according to your specific requirements.
Guide price for a drive in- drive out conversion is £7000 approx.

 

okay, couldn't be more clear :)

 

I was really preparing for bill of + £17.000, so this is a real godsend :)

[timmy850]

For £17,000 you could buy a good A-series mini for the weekend and a Civic for the weekly drive!

[mikal]

All I can think of replying is "How long is a piece of string"?!

[Riko]

Is a large part of the extra cost in Germany to meet the much stricter requirements there to make it street legal which are not necessary in UK....yet?.....plus most German conversions of this type seem to be done to a very high standard of quality and finish with attention paid to the detail engineering of every area of the car.

 

GRacing above mention having to fit special approved rims, fender flares, final drive to meet emission tests, etc, in Germany.

makes sense

 

he did talk about special approved rims, flares, emissions tests.

 

Being Germany, I would not be surprised the rules for such a conversion are wide and strict.

And indeed, Germans are know for their grundlichkeit.

 

But damn, £9.500 difference, is it worth it..

[Riko]

All I can think of replying is "How long is a piece of string"?!

well, that applies if the basecar itself is unpredictable (rust, bodywork etc)

 

but talking about the conversion itself, I think that is more or less doable to make an estimation.

[Riko]

Small update, got an answer from Gracing, when I asked about the big proce difference.

 

'There are a lot of difference.

1. They need to lengthen the front end

2. our kit is fully proofed by TÜV

3. Our kit is 100% complete

It is a long list. If you want to talk on phone, I would recommend to do this next week.

Andy'

[Dusky]

How Will you bring it to Belgium and put it on the road and insure it legaly?
Its not something that is that easy to do here so I genuinly wonder.
I cant even import an italian abarth with a factory rollcage due to the MOT guys acting up.
Imagine finding an insurer for a 160 bhp Mini.

Edited by Dusky, 14 November 2016 - 05:23 PM.