39 replies to this topic

[Chris1992]

The title of this thread is 13" Not for me.

He didn't say 'not for you'.

Everyone is free to decide what to do to their own property. If you owned a piece of antique furniture you could paint it matt white and it would be no-one's business but yours. If you owned the Mona Lisa you could paint a moustache on it if you wished.

This thread is simply pointing out that one member drove a Mini on 13" wheels and discovered  what many others have discovered, i.e. that they have many disadvantages.

Now in case anyone was thinking that 13" wheels might improve the performance, fuel consumption, top speed, road-holding or handling of their classic Mini, then they now know that this is not the case. If they still choose to fit them then no-one can criticise as it is their choice. But it is, perhaps, the responsibility of those who understand to point this out and to explain the technical reasons for the effects of 13" wheels, or anything else for that matter. This is why we have a forum - to help answer questions and to improve owners technical knowledge.

 

Oh please, we all know exactly where this thread was heading too. It's an excuse to bash people who have the audacity to chose aesthetics (or 'the look' as you put it) over performance. The initial post was pointless "I tried my friends 13s and I hate them. He should listen to me because I'm right but he won't" was the message essentially... If people need info on wheel sizes then there are tons of posts like this one all over every Mini forum on the internet. 

 

As has already been said, some people actually like to stand out in the mini scene and not just blend into the sea of 10s you see at every show. That seems to be forbidden though, anyone who tries to do something different with one of the world precious Mini's is then hated on. The Mona Lisa is a one-off worth millions so that is a ridiculous comparison. Of course I wouldn't, in the same way that I wouldn't fit bolt on arches to a DB5... There is a plentiful supply of Minis left in the world though, so why are people scolded when they chose to get a little creative with their styles?

 

As I said, in any other car scene, if someone has their own style then 9/10 times people appreciate that, so why is the Mini scene specifically so different? 

 

"If they still choose to fit them then no-one can criticise as it is their choice" - Well that certainly doesn't stop people does it! As this thread proves...

 

It's true what they say. 'A nail that sticks out gets hammered'

Edited by Chris1992, 05 August 2016 - 10:30 PM.

[Cooperman]

I have just re-read this entire thread and it is a technical discussion about the fitting of 13" wheels and ultra low-profile tyres to the Mini. It is not a discussion about styling or 'looking good as that is a personal perception not technical facts.

 

Nowhere has anyone said 'don't fit them or you are stupid'. What has been said is factually correct and technically accurate.

 

One of the rules for the Mini Docs is that we must not make any statements which are inaccurate or which may lead to a reduction in safety. Everything on here, from the article by Keith Calver, who is highly respected by our technical team, and information from others who have specific engineering experience and/or test driving experience on a wide range of vehicles is totally accurate.

 

Owners are always free to accept or reject information provided, but please don't criticise those of us who take the time to try to provide accurate and correct technical information. There is, collectively, a huge amount of engineering expertise on here, but if those giving it are criticised for telling the truth, then they may reconsider helping in the future. 

[Chris1992]

I'm not criticizing the wealth of knowledge that this forum has, nor am I criticizing those who chose to share that knowledge... I am questioning why this post even needed to be made in the first place, as it was just an invitation to open up a can of worms, and the OP damn well knew that.... Bit like me saying "hey guys, today I saw a red mini, I absolutely hate the colour red so I told him to change it but he wouldn't. Lots of you have red Mini's but I'm just letting you all know that I hate red Mini's"... Yes that may just be my opinion and I can post it on here if I wish, but is there really any need? What good will come of it? .... 

 

My point is that 13s are not the death-trap that they are made out to be. with the correct suspension set up and proper maintenance they still handle better than any hot hatch I have driven. There is a lot of scaremongering regarding 13s, Whenever a new member mentions fitting them, the first comments are always something along the lines of "don't do it your car will be undrivable!!! Fit 10s instead!!!" When in reality that is not the case.

 

And regarding the phrase "don't fit them or you are stupid", it may not have been mentioned yet in this particular thread (although the presence of this thread loosely implies that anyway) but it has certainly been mentioned in the past multiple times by many members who are high up in the forum ranks, on threads identical to this one: Threads that have simply been set up to ask the one question of why someone has chosen to do something that they don't like, and as usual, the answer "because they like it" is usually not good enough, and so much scaremongering follows. 

[THE ANORAK]

Wow.someone needs a time out !!!

[James_eaton_thewholething]

Pretty sure it's called welcome to the Internet. It's the place where people ask what ever questions they feel and give their own opinions on everything even if incorrect or not relevant to the to the actual original post.

No you may not like the original post but at the end of the day you didn't have to read it, so the reality in this situation is that by questioning the necessity of the post, you are now no different than the people that go on posts about 13's and say people are stupid for fitting them.

The thing with all forums, Facebook and even in real life is the same questions get asked all the or the same things get said all the time it is not just part of life. It is only due to the fact people can now google everything that we find is unacceptable for people to start new threads about previously discussed items. There is in fact a lot of post about some of the same things all over the place for example. Getting rid of a 998 for a 1275, how much is my car worth, what oil should I use in my dash pot, what oil should I use, how low should I have my car, my car is really low and rubs on the arches what should I do. I want to fit 13's what do I need to do, how do I cut the arches out for sports pack wheels, what colour should I paint my engine, I want to paint my car in any colour as long as it's red, blue, white or green and need paint codes

All those pop up a lot and not everyone moans for the fact some one asked the question. Also this forum would t exist if people just posted about things once or didn't share their opinion for people to discuss. The person was just stating they didn't like them and that's a personal choice, I personally don't like stanced cars but some of them look really good. I also don't see the point in a majority wanting 1275's but it's my opinion, I express my view and that's it. Some people won't like stuff I do with any of my cars but it is always personal opinion.

The moral is if you don't like it pass on by and read something else because no matter how much you don't like something it will forever happen because human opinion is always the cause for arguments and discussions

Edited by James_eaton_thewholething, 06 August 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[Cooperman]

The technical and engineering issues with 13" wheels have now been extensivly and accurately explained so it is time to close this thread.
There is sufficient information for owners to make their own judgement.

[Artstu]

I think quite a few Mini's have been written off in recent years due to 7x13 wheels aqua planing in the wet or from effects like severe bump steer causing the driver to lose control.....I found the same problems even with 6x13 fitted on a Mini when the 175/50x13 Pirelli P6 tyres first became avaliable many years ago.

 

P7 ? which actually measured 195.

 

[Chris1992]

I've made my point so take it or leave it, and others have made theirs which is fair enough. I can see this going round in circles now.

 

I may have gone off on one a bit with my later replies, but I still stand by my original reply to this thread 

Edited by Chris1992, 06 August 2016 - 11:39 AM.

[govig]

Why do some people get so cross on forums? About nothing. I was going for 13s on my 'ultimate mini' and have now changed my mind thanks to those with more knowledge and experience than me. I didn't have to take any notice of anyone on here but chose to. Had I disagreed I'd just do what I wanted and nobody would care.

 

That huge knowledge base and experience is one of the reasons why I'm here. To learn more (and in my 60s having owned 7 Minis and a Moke) enjoy some camaraderie and have the occasional (hopefully not too occasional) laugh. Early on I unwittingly managed to really annoy one of our younger members who appeared to misunderstand something I said. Who cares... let it go....

 

Social media is full of aggression and angst; let's leave it there. Peace : )

[59 Speed]

I've had 10's, 12's and at the moment, 13's.

I do see why people prefer 10's and one day I might go back to them, will have to change my brakes and arches (more time in the garage 😉), but for now I'm happy with the way my Mini handles especially after I got my head around setting up the suspension properly.

But... wouldn't it be boring if we all had the same size wheels?

[Cooperman]

If one looks at the vast majority of posts on this forum they fall mainly into two categories:

1. How do I carry our certain maintenance or restoration work? and,

2. How can I improve the somewhat dated performance of my classic Mini?

 

Now we try to address both of these areas as well as possible and to give good advice based on engineering experience. Advice on how to select the optimum cam, how to set the suspension up, what brakes are good, what gearing to use with different engine specifications, etc.

 

However, it seems that the perceived improved appearance of 13" wheels is regarded by some owners, (and they have every right to have this opinion) as a good thing to have and they are happy to have somewhat degraded performance for the sake of the appearance. As was said earlier "Each to his/her own". 

 

It is the same with very large final diameter exhaust systems which can and have been described correctly as 'power-sapping noise-boosters'. But there are those prepared to lose performance in order to make more noise. Again, each to his/her own.

 

For the Mini Docs and others it is a bit of an anathema to advise on performance reduction whilst keeping an open mind. Keith Calver's excellent dissertation on 13" wheels, which 'mab...' posted really did explain it accurately & well and others added bits which are all correct.

 

At the end of the day it is personal choice. I will give my personal view which is that the classic Mini, like most old classic cars, is slow and fuel-hungry enough already without making it worse, but if that's what owners want, then it is their money and their classic car to do with as they please and so long as it gives them pleasure that's all fine.

 

There is a Supermarine Spitfire flying on the display circuits which is finished in natural polished aluminium colour. Some 'warbird' enthusiasts think it is letting down the enthusiast base by it not being in WW2 camouflage. But it is the owner's choice and to me it does look fantastic, if somewhat different.

[1984mini25]

I've driven minis all with standard suspension (in good condition) running on 5x10's, 4.5 and 5.5x 12's and 6x13's. The 10's gave the nicest ride with the big sidewalls, but the tyre squeal from the falken 165's (even when not pushed) was rather annoying. The 6x13's (sportspack, witch I've never been a fan of) just seamed to bang, crash and wander over even the slightest of bumps. Was a pain with the heavy steering at low speeds and overall just dint seam as chuckable. The mini on 4.5x12's is light on its feet, has light steering, soft ride, easily chuckable and predicable. Although the best compromise for me has to be a mini on 5.5x12" yoko's. Slightly heavy steering with the increase in width, but not stupid. And the prefect balance between ride comfort, grip and handling.

 

But then I also don't like the ride in a lot of modern cars ( I have back problems) with rock hard seats and stupid low profile tyres, that seam to make thud, bang, and crash over every bump. I'll even go as far as saying the mini rides better. Yes it is harsher. But most of that is cancelled out by the soft spongy seats and 70 profile tyres.

[racingbob]

I've driven minis all with standard suspension (in good condition) running on 5x10's, 4.5 and 5.5x 12's and 6x13's. The 10's gave the nicest ride with the big sidewalls, but the tyre squeal from the falken 165's (even when not pushed) was rather annoying. The 6x13's (sportspack, witch I've never been a fan of) just seamed to bang, crash and wander over even the slightest of bumps. Was a pain with the heavy steering at low speeds and overall just dint seam as chuckable. The mini on 4.5x12's is light on its feet, has light steering, soft ride, easily chuckable and predicable. Although the best compromise for me has to be a mini on 5.5x12" yoko's. Slightly heavy steering with the increase in width, but not stupid. And the prefect balance between ride comfort, grip and handling.

 

But then I also don't like the ride in a lot of modern cars ( I have back problems) with rock hard seats and stupid low profile tyres, that seam to make thud, bang, and crash over every bump. I'll even go as far as saying the mini rides better. Yes it is harsher. But most of that is cancelled out by the soft spongy seats and 70 profile tyres.

yes you cant go wrong with the 5.5 x12 and yokos its the best FOR ME ( as stated in my original post NOT FOR ME)

 

idiots on here make me sick so from now on no more CHAT for me when idiots dont read the post correctly

 

thanks to some of you for sticking up for me in particular cooperman

 

this is meant to be a forum where you can express personal experiences which is all i did

 

and maybe people can think maybe he has a point here would i be better off not spending

 

£400 on new 7x13 or no i will still have them

[the.stroker]

Christ, away for a few days and return to name calling and juvenile spats, thread closed so it can be cleaned up

[sonikk4]

Right everybody step away and take 5.

There are no need for belittling and sarcastic comments. Also people need to read the very first post again before they jump on the bandwagon here.

We are all allowed to make our own minds up with regards to what mods we like or do not like, we also have a set of rules on this forum which you all have read and allegedly understood.

So going on from there the next comment that's out of line will result in a warning.

There was no need for this thread to go the way it has.

 

I have hidden numerous threads to help clean this up somewhat.