23 replies to this topic

[cambiker71]

I've got a question here;-
 
Do these particular starter motors work with the earlier 'smash and grab' type ring gears or do they use a different one?

Doubtful, there's a few options, the pitch of the flywheel ring gear needs to match the starter motor though

[MRA]

 

I've got a question here;-
 
Do these particular starter motors work with the earlier 'smash and grab' type ring gears or do they use a different one?

Doubtful, there's a few options, the pitch of the flywheel ring gear needs to match the starter motor though

 

 

There is a "odd" starter, I have seen a pre-engaged starter motor on an inertia type flywheel, I think it was from an early metro.

[KernowCooper]

Forget changing lots of wiring, you need one crimp on connector to fit the metro starter solenoid and one eyelet crimp on connector to fit the starters battery connection and about an inch of wire.
Then connect the metro starters battery connection to the exciter connection and bolt the wire from the solenoid on the wing to the starter in the same way as the old mini starter, when the solenoid is switched it will power up the new metro starter too.
Connect as the red marker. Done lots like this. Dead easy.

While the above wiring does work, the wiring as per the diagram above powers the starter motor to spin and engage the pre-engaged drive gear at the same time, which defeats the advantage of the pre-engaged setup, where the solenoid pre engages the gear and then makes the contact to spin the motor.

 

The wiring above would increase the wear on drive gear and the ring gear and the pre-engaged ring gear/drive gear was never designed to be crash engage.

 

Whilst the above wiring is easy to install, I'd recommend you wire it as intended with the relay on the wing and loose the old solenoid, or use the old solenoid as a connection point where you remove the wire on the 12v out with the key held connection and place this on the 12v in from battery connection and onto the solenoid on the pre-engaged solenoid, using the old 12v trigger wire to power a starter relay and avoiding problems with current through the ignition switch.

[cambiker71]

Didn't have any problems with mine working like this Kernow, over 5 years an 60000 miles daily driver usage

[KernowCooper]

You may not have but its not the correct way to run a Pre-Engaged starter Cam

[Ethel]

It doesn't Dave,

 

The actual motor  is on the screw terminal and is only connected when the solenoid bridges both screw terminals internally, same as the wing mounted variety. The only difference is the solenoid has to pull the gear into engagement with ring gear before it makes contact. 

 

I'm trying to think if there is a down side. I suppose the wing solenoid will be switching more current so might erode its contacts sooner. There'll also be a bit more resistance pinching oomph from the motor. Can't make my mind up if it will auto disengage any different once the engine starts; the short jumper and thick battery cable might put more volts on the solenoid for motor to cancel out while it's playing at being a generator.

 

 

...and a + for doing it Cambiker's way - if the pre engaged starter jams on you can still cut its supply off.

[cambiker71]

As said before I had five years usage like this before I sold the car. I have 25 odd years as a tech in the motor trade so have a bit of an idea how these things work
The wire goes to the usual place on the starter motor, not directly to the motor bypassing the pre engaged starter.
It all works the same as a normal pre engaged starter, the only difference is the main battery power is also switched off when the key is released.
Another bonus is you don't have a permanent main battery cable to rub through on the back of the grill if you use a metro starter motor, the mini ones have the solonoid mounted on top of the motor leaving the wiring up higher and away from harm whereas the metro type has the solonoid mounted further round forward of the engine which makes the wiring fairly close to the grill and front panel (Unless you have a clubman of course)

Edited by cambiker71, 07 March 2016 - 06:37 PM.

[MRA]

As said before I had five years usage like this before I sold the car. I have 25 odd years as a tech in the motor trade so have a bit of an idea how these things work
The wire goes to the usual place on the starter motor, not directly to the motor bypassing the pre engaged starter.
It all works the same as a normal pre engaged starter, the only difference is the main battery power is also switched off when the key is released.
Another bonus is you don't have a permanent main battery cable to rub through on the back of the grill if you use a metro starter motor, the mini ones have the solonoid mounted on top of the motor leaving the wiring up higher and away from harm whereas the metro type has the solonoid mounted further round forward of the engine which makes the wiring fairly close to the grill and front panel (Unless you have a clubman of course)

 

Before the Mini was fitted with pre-engaged starter motor I welded in a couple of aluminium blocks, machined them level and drilled, tapped two holes so as to turn the starter motor clockwise in the transfer case... not ideal but it did work well and meant I could use the Turbo transfer case and pre-engaged starter....

Edited by MRA, 08 March 2016 - 02:40 PM.

[MiniMoe2008]

Does anyone have pictures on where it hooks up from the wall mounted solenoid?