13 replies to this topic

[Mcqueen]

Hi everyone, I searched around the internet and the forum , but couldnt find anything specific about my problem. 
I was driving around one day, with two other friends in the car, all seemingly fine, but when i got home that day I noticed the cars steering was a bit less precise, a bit looser. As you turn the wheel, the first 2 cm of movement to either side feel a bit dead / spongy, but after that it seems to regain some resistance, and the feel goes back to being more linear, and precise.

I checked the alignment, looked under the car, and couldnt find anything. I have heard that this could be something on the tie rods, but when we checked, they seemed fine. 

Also thought it could be something in the steering rack, but took it to the local Land Rover / Rover garage and they said it was fine, although but im starting to doubt them a bit.

Could it be related to the play on the steering column ( it goes up and down a cm, if I pull/push) and have checked the u-bolts  that hold the column in place, on the floor, and they are very tight, but there is still some movement.

 

Any ideas?

Mcqueen

[Mini 360]

It could be the splines where the column meets the rack have rounded.  This could lead to total loss of steering so it would be advisable not to drive it until it is sorted!

[Wim Fournier]

Yes, the axial play means that the 'U' connection at the foot of the shaft that goes down from the steering wheel to the  steering rack is widened, so that the bolt that is piercing through the ends of the U legs may be tight, but the legs of the U are streched that much that they do not clamp the shaft enough. 

Edited by Wim Fournier, 11 December 2015 - 02:39 PM.

[tiger99]

NO! THAT IS DANGEROUS ADVICE!

 

If there is wear at that point, the inner column needs to be replaced, with a new pinch bolt and nut, before the car is driven again. The splines have already been damaged to the point where they are uselsss, filing metal out will not improve their fit at all.

 

People have been killed by failures at that point.

 

The rack U bolts must be loosened while fitting and bolting up the new column. The procedure is in the Haynes manual.

 

A frequent cause of this problem is fitting inadequately designed steering column drop brackets, or not following the instructions (if provided!) carefully. There were frequent accidents in the 1960s, following the introduction of drop brackets, and BMC issued instructions that they were not to be used. I think they did eventually approve one of the better ones. If they allow side to side movement, or if you adjust them without loosening the rack, you can expect failure of the spline. The reason is rather obvious to anyone who is capable of actually maintaining a car.

 

The pinch bolt must be re-torqued at every service interval. Only takes a few seconds.

[tiger99]

Mini 360,

 

What you said is absolutely correct, so if the next post by Wim Fournier (which I have reported) gets deleted by the mods, for being dangerous, it may leave my above post appearing to criticise what you said. That is not my intention.

[slidehammer]

I agree with the above regarding wear in the steering column / steering rack spines, if this is where the problem lies then it must be sorted with new components. What I would do to check exactly where the problem lies is get the front of the car up on axel stands. Now work from one side of the car to the other methodically checking as you go. Worn / loose wheel bearing would effect steering, track rod end, the track rod where it meets the rack, is the rack tight (check the u bolts) then the same on the other side of the car. Maybe get someone to rock the steering wheel while you look for play in the steering.

[sonikk4]

Wims post has been edited by himself.

 

TO ALL MEMBERS as per the forum rules please think very carefully about what you post. The information must be factually correct and of course safe.

[Mcqueen]

Thank you everyone for your answers,

I think youre right in regards to the steering  Im going to put the car up in jack stands next week, check the whole system, and start thinking about replacing that inner column, which I hope wont be a hard job to do, for someone  mechanically inexperienced like me. I think the rack I have is a quickrack, is there any diference in what type of inner column I should get? Im looking at the ones that minisport sell. 

 

Thank you all

 

Mcqueen

[sonikk4]

Before you waste your money on buying anything you need to find exactly what is the problem.

 

Once you have traced the issue then go from there. Now you may need two people two assist in the fault diagnosis which i would recommend.

 

So before disassembly and with with the car on the ground look for physical play in the rack ensuring the rack is correctly attached to the mount. Check the two U bolts to make sure they are tight. There are two anti friction pads that fit between the rack and the u bolt. if this is missing are damaged then this can cause issues

http://www.minispare...|Back to search

 

If this is ok then move on from there. If the splines are damaged  either on the rack or the inner column then as you move the steering wheel you should either feel or hear any slippage. Check the pinch bolt to ensure its nipped up. Do not go tightening it at this point.

 

If nothing there then move on to the track rod ends, by rocking the steering you should be able to feel and see any wear.

 

If nothing there then onto the hubs, checking both top and bottom ball joints for wear, again rocking the steering from side to side should be enough to see any wear. You may have to jack the car to get a better view.

 

Still nothing check the the rest of the hub, top arm etc.

 

Now if at this stage you cannot find the cause of the issue its time to start stripping things down.

 

Disassemble the steering column and check the splines for wear and tear. Also at this point you can check the splines on the rack input. While you have the column apart i would change the upper and lower bushes as a matter of course. If there is no wear on the splines then go from there.

 

Reassemble the column and reconnect it to the rack. Now disconnect the track rod ends from the hub arms. Physically check the track rod ends for wear. If you find anything there then change them. Now also check the rack arms for wear. See if they feel loose or notchy when the steering wheel is turned. If you suspect the rack at all then change it. Don't forget to buy new friction strips.

 

Now if after all of that the problem still exists then its on to the hubs. Pop the ball joints from the hub and check for wear. Any at all then replace them. Make sure they are bedded in correctly and do not bind. Check the top arm for wear in the bearings as well. Replace the bearings if worn. Check the tie bars as well.

 

This is not a definitive list but a guide. Take your time and be thorough. If in doubt about anything you can ask on here but if you suspect anything is worn then replace it.

[minisprint]

Take car to any mot garage ask them to check out and quote for the fault to be fixed better safe than sorry! Brakes and steering shouldn't be messed with.

[tiger99]

Yes, absolutely, never take chances with brakes or steering, but very few garages understand Minis nowadays. They often don't know things that are really vital, like the simple procedure for aligning the rack and column. That is not to suggest that they are incompetent, merely that the mechanics and even MOT testers may never have been trained on Minis.

 

Actually the standards set by many garages nowadays are far higher than they have ever been, but only in their area of expertise. Same for anything else. No-one can be expected to know everything. You would not expect a brain surgeon to fix your hip joint, evem though he would know the principles involved.

 

All I am really suggesting is that it is best to find a garage well experienced with Minis, if at all possible, and communicate your needs to them carefully. Describe problems carefully, it will save them time, and you, money. A lot of the problems that with garages are due to mis-communication.

[gazza82]

As McQueen is in Lisbon I would think classic experts are few and far between ...

[tiger99]

Sorry, never noticed. That does indeed make it more difficult to find a genuine Mini expert, which is where this forum can help, along with the Haynes manual.

[MrBounce]

As someone who has experienced complete loss of steering I can confirm just how dangerous and frightening it is. Get it fixed properly.