17 replies to this topic

[Floody]

Hi first of all I'm completely new to all things mini as well as this site so I apologise if this is in the wrong place or just for my stupid questions! I always see about minis that do or don't have Hi-Los fitted and was wondering exactly what this is and how it differs from the normal suspension. Also what a standard suspension set up is as I understand it's not what a typical modern car would have, and are there any specific things I should look for when buying a mini with either kind of setup and if there is a better or worst option? Thanks in advance

[nicklouse]

Hi-Los are an adjustable trumpet. and are a conviniant way to adjust the ride height.

 

best get a Haynes manual for when you get the Mini.

 

Edited by nicklouse, 04 November 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[sonikk4]

When you going looking at minis have a good walk round them to check to see if the car is level or leaning. Now for standard suspension this could be one of several things, worn or collapsed cones, broken knuckle being the primary things. There are some other things as well that could be a possible cause like damaged subframes etc. However this is unlikely unless the car is very poorly maintained.

As Nick has mentioned Hi lo's are used to change the ride height of the car. For example I have a set on my clubby. The only reason for them was to allow the height of the suspension to be adjusted after it was all replaced. Kept at nearly standard ride height.

Other people use them to lower their cars a lot further. This may also mean they have changed the shock absorbers for lowered types and the front shock mounts. This in turn though can create issues with geometry and wear on the ball joints. This last part though does create a lot of differing views but I digress.

So basically they are a means of lowering or raising the ride height of your car. Not difficult to fit but a specialist cone compressor is needed to safely changed the front cones.

If you decide to look at cars that have been lowered have a really good check of the suspension all round. Also if the car has been slammed check to see if the rear inner arches have been tubbed. If not then there is a good chance the tire will have been hitting the rear arch and causing distortion in the rear quarter panel.

[Floody]

Thanks guys, good explanation! Would it be fair to compare the cones to coil springs then?

[nicklouse]

Thanks guys, good explanation! Would it be fair to compare the cones to coil springs then?

 no nothing to do with the spring.

 

the spring is the rubber donut. No, 20 above.

trumpet is No. 16

[Batmini]

I don't know if this makes it clearer, but here goes. As you can see from the attached pictures, the rubber 'spring' or 'donut' as some people call them is fitted into the 'cone' or 'trumpet'. All the cone does is connect the rubber donut to the top arm (via the knuckle joint). The one in my picture is an adjustable cone (or hi lo) which allows adjustment of the height of the car.

This is the front suspension, the rear is similar but the wheels mount onto a swinging arm which compresses the rubber spring. (Last pic)

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[dklawson]

There are spring conversion kits that some people fit to Minis (both Minis with and without Hi-Los) in place of the rubber cone suspension.  However, spring vs rubber cone vs hydrolastic suspension is a totally different discussion.  As others have mentioned already, the Hi-Lo is a device/component fitted to allow changing the ride height of the car.  Most can be used with either the common rubber cones or aftermarket springs.

[bob540]

Thanks guys, good explanation! Would it be fair to compare the cones to coil springs then?

 no nothing to do with the spring.
 
the spring is the rubber donut. No, 20 above.
trumpet is No. 16

This is where I had confusion when I went to upgrade my suspension, minispares (and I'm sure others) label the rubber donuts as cones, this may very well be the correct term for them, but a lot of people label the trumpets as cones, again understandable they are cone shaped at the end of the day. But it all confused me for a bit at the start until I knew what was what.

Edited by bob540, 04 November 2015 - 01:23 PM.

[A-Cell]

What's in a name....!!
Like all things over the last 60 years words and names have changed.
Original BMC names were for 20 on nicks diagram Cone Spring, now nicknamed and usually referred to as rubber doughnut.
Item 16 started as suspension strut, now referred to as trumpet!
Bit like the clutch cover now referred to as the wok!

To the OP the hi lol refers to an adjustable version of the alloy trumpet which enables adjustment of the ride height. And as you said the rubber cone spring (doughnut) is the spring medium for the mini using 'dry' suspension. Early minis 1965 to 1970 were fitted with 'wet' or Hydrolastic suspension. These used a Displacer instead of a rubber cone Spring. The displacer acted as the spring medium and was a combination of compressible rubber and non compressible hydraulic fluid which enabled the front and rear to be interconnected, transferring the suspension inputs from front to rear. The hydraulic fluid used is water with ethylene glycol to prevent freezing and fluorescence dye to make it taste horrible.

[Floody]

Thanks to everyone! Cleared that up a bit for me

[Spider]

 Also what a standard suspension set up is as I understand it's not what a typical modern car would have

 

If you want to learn some fairly basic things, terminology, concepts etc, Reader's Digest published a book which now sadly seems out of print, Titled 'Readers Digest Book of the Car', it's not a workshop manual or an engineering book but IMO for a keen leaner, it is a very good starting point not just with suspension systems (though it does include a good section on Hydrolastic) but most systems on cars and in moderately basic terms and great illustrations, how they work.

 

When I say 'Fairly Basic' it does go in to some detail for example, how an SU Carb Works, how Synchromesh Works, Auto Gearboxes, Steering (including Power Steer), it really is a very good book,

 

I think this is a second hand copy   http://www.abebooks....n=9780909486334

 

<Edit: the later prints appear to now be titled  'Readers Digest Complete Car Care';-

 

http://www.amazon.com/Readers-Digest-Complete-Care-Manual/dp/0895770881    >

Edited by Moke Spider, 04 November 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[nicklouse]

In the UK it, I think, the "AA Book of the car"

http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/090335621X
Chris If you recognise some images then you know where they came from.

Also what a standard suspension set up is as I understand it's not what a typical modern car would have

 
If you want to learn some fairly basic things, terminology, concepts etc, Reader's Digest published a book which now sadly seems out of print, Titled 'Readers Digest Book of the Car', it's not a workshop manual or an engineering book but IMO for a keen leaner, it is a very good starting point not just with suspension systems (though it does include a good section on Hydrolastic) but most systems on cars and in moderately basic terms and great illustrations, how they work.
 
When I say 'Fairly Basic' it does go in to some detail for example, how an SU Carb Works, how Synchromesh Works, Auto Gearboxes, Steering (including Power Steer), it really is a very good book,
 
I think this is a second hand copy   http://www.abebooks....n=9780909486334
 
<Edit: the later prints appear to now be titled  'Readers Digest Complete Car Care';-
 
http://www.amazon.com/Readers-Digest-Complete-Care-Manual/dp/0895770881   

Edited by nicklouse, 04 November 2015 - 07:25 PM.

[fenghuang]

Some of the replies (most of them) come from far more knowledgable people that me. But my twa pen'ith ...

You don't need hi-los.
When buying a Mini, especially if it's relatively cheap (and most people's first Minis are) the rubber doughnuts (like springs) may well be past their sell by date. (Unlike metal springs they deteriorate over time.) In my experience, a lot of performance / upgraded parts get fitted to Minis when it would be better spending the same money on several new standard parts.
Some people fit hi-los because they like how they make the car look, although they may make it handle worse. They may also make the car handle better, but that's not black and white.
When buying a your first Mini, unless budget isn't a huge issue, I'd say a folder full of receipts for replacement standard parts, is worth more than upgrades.
Others may disagree.

Edited by fenghuang, 04 November 2015 - 07:37 PM.

[Ethel]

Minis were the trend setter for the suspension on many modern cars. The rear is trailing arm (radius arms in Mini parlance). The front is double wishbone. It's the rubber springs that set the Mini apart, making a light car able to carry a wide range of weight for its size with limited wheel travel. The limited travel means they corner with little roll. That, and the suspension being jointed with machined metal bearings means they steer precisely giving exceptional handling.

[fenghuang]

Didn't think the front was double wishbone. <scratches head>