One Carb Or Two?
Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:18 PM
As you may have seen me post the other week, I've just had my sump plug helicoiled. Problem is now it keep dripping oil. The plug is torqued up correctly, so I'm not sure what the next move should be.
I have read that its common for it to leak after a helicoil, I'm just wondering what the best method is to stop it? Would some sort of sealant stop it?
Up Into Fourth
Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:20 PM
Stupid question but has it got the copper washer fitted?
Moved Into The Garage
Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:27 PM
If the sump had not been HeliCoiled I would recommend a "Dowty washer". They are bonded metal/rubber seals that REALLY work well without excessive torque required for the seal. They don't really work well once the sump has been HeliCoiled. I suspect your issue may be that the HeliCoil was not tapped and inserted perpendicular to the sealing face on the sump.
Since you are having leakage issues I suggest you get an M14 nylon, ribbed drain plug washer. There are different types. The ones I would look for will have sort of an interrupted inside diameter. Though M14 drain washers should not fit the Mini drain plug, they can be "screwed on" and left on the plug. The ribbed nylon washers seal well without excessive torque.
Dowty seal:
Ribbed nylon drain washer:
One Carb Or Two?
Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:30 PM
If the sump had not been HeliCoiled I would recommend a "Dowty washer". They are bonded metal/rubber seals that REALLY work well without excessive torque required for the seal. They don't really work well once the sump has been HeliCoiled. I suspect your issue may be that the HeliCoil was not tapped and inserted perpendicular to the sealing face on the sump.
Since you are having leakage issues I suggest you get an M14 nylon, ribbed drain plug washer. There are different types. The ones I would look for will have sort of an interrupted inside diameter. Though M14 drain washers should not fit the Mini drain plug, they can be "screwed on" and left on the plug. The ribbed nylon washers seal well without excessive torque.
Dowty seal:
Ribbed nylon drain washer:
Thanks DK, great info! What sort of torque would I need to set my wrench at when using one of them nylon washers?
And yes Tupers, the copper washer is fitted.
Moved Into The Garage
Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:59 PM
Doug's suggestion of the Dowty Washers is a damn good one, though I'd think an M16 would be the size, given the plug is 5/8".
If you have trouble tracking them down, you can use a Fibre Washer (they are like Red Cardboard) usually obtainable from nearly any Auto Parts store, if you go this way though, grab a few as you'll seldom get more than 2 or 3 goes out of each one.
Moved Into The Garage
Posted 01 October 2015 - 12:06 AM
Perhaps in the U.K. you will find some 16mm drain plug washers as Spider suggested. Over here I have yet to see one. For a Dowty washer you could contact a hydraulic supplier about a G3/8" (3/8 BSPP) pipe seal... that will be a better fit than 14mm.
The problem with the Dowty washer with the HeliCoil installed is that the material in the sump immediately adjacent to the plug threads is not in good contact with the rubber of the washer. That's why I suggested nylon instead. Chris' fiber washers should work well also.
As far as the torque goes... that is "by feel". With the Dowty washer or nylon seal you will feel the washer "squish". With the Dowty washer, the squish will be followed by a positive stop as metal contacts metal. At that point you are done. When you are working with the nylon once you feel the squish you will want to turn it another 1 or 2 wrench flats but you won't need to go more.
Gearbox Guru
Posted 01 October 2015 - 07:36 AM
As you may have seen me post the other week, I've just had my sump plug helicoiled. Problem is now it keep dripping oil. The plug is torqued up correctly, so I'm not sure what the next move should be.
I have read that its common for it to leak after a helicoil, I'm just wondering what the best method is to stop it? Would some sort of sealant stop it?
Assuming it was done in car, then that's usually the problem... It's not straight, so will leak.... try the Dowty seal, fingers crossed it may work, but you're now on the rocky road to a replacement case.
Also try another copper washer, but anneal it first, which will soften the copper and make it seal better.
I have also put an O ring on the sump plug inside the copper washer before to help sealing.
PS, Torque up to 25ftlb.
Edited by Guess-Works.com, 01 October 2015 - 07:37 AM.
Camshaft & Stage Two Head
Posted 01 October 2015 - 07:42 AM
Mine has been HeliCoiled while in the car and leaks a tiny bit when warm. I have used one of the rubber sealing washers as above as is better than the standard copper crush washer. The best seal I achieved was using a copper hi temp exhaust seal on the last few threads, it worked very well and did not drop any oil...! Last oil change I used the rubber sealing washer and it leaks a tiny bit. May go back to copper sealant on next oil change.
One Carb Or Two?
Posted 02 October 2015 - 07:24 PM
Had another go this afternoon. Couldn't find any of those ribbed nylon washers. I bought some dowty washers but it was impossible to get them on the plug!
I managed to find a fibre washer, which I used in front of the copper washer, added a little bit of Loctite, torqued it up, topped the oil back up, and it didnt leak.
I didn't start the engine as I thought I'll give the Loctite a chance to set first.
I'll have a look in the morning to see if any has leaked, and I'll take it for a drive. Fingers crossed that fibre washer has made a good seal.
Thanks for all your help, and I'll keep you posted.
Moved Into The Garage
Posted 02 October 2015 - 09:41 PM
Where did you apply the Loctite... to the threads or to a face of the fiber washer?
Loctite may turn your fiber washer into a one-time-use item. You may in fact have to scrape the sealing face of the gearbox off at the next oil change to get a seal again. Just something to keep in mind before removing the plug several months from now.
Were I planning on using a sealant here I would use a smear of Hylomar if it was available. There is also PTFE pipe thread sealant available at most DIY centers that would be a decent choice.
Stage One Kit Fitted
Posted 04 October 2015 - 09:39 AM
I always put a few turns of PTFE tape on the thread of the sump plug before re-inserting it. It works well but I'm sure someone on here with more knowledge than me will tell us why this is a bad idea.
Can someone also explain how to anneal a copper washer, do you just heat to red hot and plunge into cold water?
Moved Into The Garage
Posted 04 October 2015 - 09:50 AM
I managed to find a fibre washer, which I used in front of the copper washer, added a little bit of Loctite, torqued it up, topped the oil back up, and it didnt leak.
I didn't start the engine as I thought I'll give the Loctite a chance to set first.
I'll have a look in the morning to see if any has leaked, and I'll take it for a drive. Fingers crossed that fibre washer has made a good seal.
Thanks for all your help, and I'll keep you posted.
Apologies here, I should have mentioned that the Fibre Washers work in part but getting wet with Oil and that makes them swell and seal. The Loctite may (?) prevent the Fibre Washer from getting 'wet' but if it doesn't leak, then that's a win.
I always put a few turns of PTFE tape on the thread of the sump plug before re-inserting it. It works well but I'm sure someone on here with more knowledge than me will tell us why this is a bad idea.
Can someone also explain how to anneal a copper washer, do you just heat to red hot and plunge into cold water?
I've not found that PTFE Tape work with oil at all and really, the thread needs to be tapered for it to seal on PTFE, though before that was around, Hemp was what was used and that too worked be being 'wetted' and that made it swell and seal.
That is how copper is annealed. It can be done over and over as long as the washer isn't getting too chewed up.
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