85 replies to this topic

[Gunmetalmini]

As far as I'm aware the cars never been registered in Italy,it came from Ireland apparently and just sat in this couples garage,something isn't right I'm sure of it,I have a friend loving out in Italy so he's doing all the investigating,I've asked him for pics of the v5 so I'll get them up as soon as I have them just see what they look like

[surfblue]

 

Incidentally, are we forgetting that the three most famous Mk1 Cooper S of all time were registered as G plates

 

That is what was going through my mind reading this entire thread, HMP 729G, GPF 146G and LGW 809G 

 

The mini in question here is obviously not what it purports to be.

Having said that, how many other Coopers and Ss out there would stand up to such forensic scrutiny as this one is getting by experts who really know what to look for?

 

Its a lovely lovely Mini, nearly 50 years old and looking like a fantastic S recreation. Because of all those years its inevitable that changes will have been made to body shell and engine in times when painstaking quest for total originality wasnt so important. If the vendor accepts what has been discovered and is prepared to sell it for a sensible sum I'd say go for it - unless you want the rivet counting detail of perfection. Having said that, maybe he's been duped and put a lot of money into it which he needs to recoup?

 

Personally Id be proud to have it in my garage and bring it to shows. I love listening to experts arguing over minuscule details,

"That screw should be anodized not chromed on a '68...... blah blah blah!  

[Gunmetalmini]

Here's the v5??

[timmy850]

It isn't a Cooper S by any means. Yes, it might still be a very nice car, but it isn't a genuine Cooper S.

 

It's also listed a 4 door (wrong)

It has Cooper S and then a non-Cooper S Vin number

The engine number seems strange too. I can't see anything that would have had 12V923 on it?

 

There is much more to a car being a Cooper S than it merely saying that on the registration documents.. 

 

As was mentioned earlier, you could just write to them and get the model type changed in years past:

It was quite easy in past years (especially pre-computerisation) to modify a standard Mini to Cooper or S spec and then write to the DVLA or its predecessor (or your local vehicle registration office) to ask for the vehicle description to be changed on the log book at the same time as you asked for a change of engine number, etc, most times the log book came back with your request granted..........but the Mini or S was not a valuable classic car at the time.

 

 

[Gunmetalmini]

I've never come across this before,surely it's hugely fraudulent to sell a car with a false v5?or is it not?

[Cooperman]

As above, in the '60's and '70's if you turned an 850 or 998 into a Cooper 'S' by changing everything to full 'S' spec., you could simply inform the DVLC that the car was now a Mk.1 Cooper 'S', give them the new engine number and the log book came back with Austin or Morris Cooper 'S' on it. Of course, it wouldn't have had an A+ 1275 engine, it would have been a genuine Mk.1 1275 'S' (or 970 or 1071) engine. The gearboxes were the same for 998 Cooper & 'S', so no issue there.

I definitely did this with a 1963 former 997 in 1969 and, as far as I was concerned, it was a 1275 Cooper 'S'. The DVLC (or DoT as it might have been back then) gave me a log-book saying Cooper 'S' 1275 cc.

I also changed the fresh air intake pipe, fitted the correct servo and front & rear brakes. I added 'S' wheels and a 120 mph speedo. So apart from the body number it was a Cooper 'S'. On all the rallies I did it was entered as an 'S' and I never had any issues at all. I sold it to a friend as an 'S' and he knew the full history.

[Gunmetalmini]

In that case what would you say this car is worth in the condition it is in?rough idea?and thankyou for your reply it is a great help,gives me more idea

[timmy850]

So it's not a Cooper S and it's in Italy, surely by the time you buy it and ship it back and then sort it out you could just buy a replica somewhere closer to you?

[Gunmetalmini]

I'm buying it to sell on,that's why I'm asking all the questions as I want to sell it on for what it is and not something it isn't,if it was for me I wouldn't really be that bothered that it's not genuine as it is a beautiful car but I don't want to sell it on dishonestly,if I can get a rough idea what it's worth as it is then I'll know if the price I've got him down to is worth the effort

[62S]

I love listening to experts arguing over minuscule details

Here's another miniscule detail - 12V923 is an inline 1275cc A series engine number prefix!

[Spitz]

This car is up for sale again...Identified as a MkI S