20 replies to this topic

[walshy95]

hi guys, im currently running an avon bar 1380 in my car, i got it set up and ran up on a rolling road. it managed to produce around 85bhp at the wheels, but im not 100% happy with it, i feel that the engine itself needs to be more torquey, and more power full. the engine specs are

1380 ae power max pistons

stage 3 head (36 inlet 31 exhaust)

lightened flywheel

10:1 comp ratio

piper 255 cam

maniflow free flow into twin box rc40

hif44 with bbu needle on minispares inlet

std dizzy blanked off vac advance as it was fully advanving on tick over becuase of where the vac take off is

 

what things can i do to get it upto 100 bhp? and what else can i do to get more torque out of it?

i do have a new sw5 cam that was going im my old 1275 but i dont know if that will be man enough for the job, but i also want something that i can use through town and something that will sit in traffic without any dramas

 

cheers in advance

Edited by walshy95, 15 September 2015 - 08:58 PM.

[phil hill]

To be honest 85hp at the wheels is about right for this build (IMHO).

 

The SW5 is arguably a newer profile than the Piper 255 but it's a variation on a theme.  Without reminding myself of the exact specs I would expect SW5 to give a bit more torque low down with much the same peak power.

 

You could try a "bigger" cam profile, heading up the numbers to 276 or 286, to get towards the mythical 100bhp.  A well set up 1380 should be able to "pull" these cams without too much drama low down, but it won't be as smooth or torquey low down in the revs as an SW5/266/MG Metro cam etc.

 

You can't have lots of torque low down and lots of power up top unless you start turbo or supercharging, and even then it takes the right build and combination of parts. (edited to add: Or a 16 valve cylinder head of course).

 

Phil.

Edited by phil hill, 15 September 2015 - 09:14 PM.

[carbon]

Looks like a decent fast road spec. Some suggestions.

First do you know the exact advance curve on your distributor, and has it been optimised for mid range as well as peak power?

Linked to above, what fuel are you using?

And what spec rockers are you using with the cam?

 

As Phil says, if you start chasing the ultimate hp at top rpm then you will likely lose out on low end and mid range torque.

[mk1leg]

go for the new SW8 cam its fantastic and I have it in my 1380......boy does it pull well in all gears........

Hope this works Mine is the red/white mini in front of the grey rover cooper.

[jaydee]

If you're looking at upgrading the engine to 100bhp, espescially with a light flywheel, you're also be looking at fitting a short diff ratio.

A 1380 may pull with a 3.44 even with a 280 degs camshaft but with some cams that have a narrow powerband a 3.67 diff is necessary.

[walshy95]

To be honest 85hp at the wheels is about right for this build (IMHO).

 

The SW5 is arguably a newer profile than the Piper 255 but it's a variation on a theme.  Without reminding myself of the exact specs I would expect SW5 to give a bit more torque low down with much the same peak power.

 

You could try a "bigger" cam profile, heading up the numbers to 276 or 286, to get towards the mythical 100bhp.  A well set up 1380 should be able to "pull" these cams without too much drama low down, but it won't be as smooth or torquey low down in the revs as an SW5/266/MG Metro cam etc.

 

You can't have lots of torque low down and lots of power up top unless you start turbo or supercharging, and even then it takes the right build and combination of parts. (edited to add: Or a 16 valve cylinder head of course).

 

Phil.

thanks for the advice, im now possibly looking at a kent 286, or the swiftune sw10 which i believe is supposed to be a similar spec to the 286, just modernized. but now im wondering if i should go for something in between, so i can still keep a tall final drive, so i don't have to rev the engine a lot to get moving. but thanks for the advice, ive got a couple of things to consider.

thanks

sam 

[walshy95]

Looks like a decent fast road spec. Some suggestions.

First do you know the exact advance curve on your distributor, and has it been optimised for mid range as well as peak power?

Linked to above, what fuel are you using?

And what spec rockers are you using with the cam?

 

As Phil says, if you start chasing the ultimate hp at top rpm then you will likely lose out on low end and mid range torque.

hi, i dont know the exact advance, its the same dizzy i pulled out of my 1000, but i have been advised by the rolling raod place to get a aldon red non vaccum based on how it performed. im using premium unleaded, not v power, although v power is something ive yet to try. the rockers are standard a plus ones i believe. thanks for the input, any further help would be greatly appreciated!

[walshy95]

go for the new SW8 cam its fantastic and I have it in my 1380......boy does it pull well in all gears........

Hope this works Mine is the red/white mini in front of the grey rover cooper.

that really does shift! what is your set up?  thanks for the advise!

[KernowCooper]

Aldon Red is for Race applications only, not suitable for road use check out the advance curves in the FAQs

[Cooperman]

A 1380 is normally built for better torque. High bhp means very little in a road engine. On a race track or rally stage it is different and the revs with, say, a 286 can be kept between 5000 and 6800 which is where the power will be generated, via a low ratio final drive and a s ASC CR gearbox to keep it 'on the cam'.

It is unwise to 'overcam' a 1380 because with the need for the use of higher revs the rate of engine wear will be high and at 1380 it may then need a new block, or very expensive machining to sleeve it back when a re-bore is needed.

If the car is for racing or rallying then that is fine, but for road use an engine with good torque is best and for this a 286 is completely wrong. The 286 gives max power at 6400 rpm and peak torque at over 4000 rpm - entirely wrong for a road engine.

[KernowCooper]

I run a 276 in my 1330 and thats good once setup correctly, and drives perfectly ok in normal driving

[nicklouse]

I used to run a 1380 with a 286 cam and a 45 webber. Standard box and the standard 3.44 diff, fun scared the crap out if the ford owners.

A single 1 3/4 would also be an option.

Have fun.

[phil hill]

thanks for the advice, im now possibly looking at a kent 286, or the swiftune sw10 which i believe is supposed to be a similar spec to the 286, just modernized. but now im wondering if i should go for something in between, so i can still keep a tall final drive, so i don't have to rev the engine a lot to get moving. but thanks for the advice, ive got a couple of things to consider.

thanks

sam 

 

I run an SW10 in a 1293 engine with a close-ratio box and a 3.6 diff.  The engine pulls very well and I reckon it would be fine on a standard box with a 3.4 diff no problem at all.  

 

Phil.

[mk1leg]

mine is a 1380cc with an SW8 cam, swift race followers, MED pushrods, Swift 1.5 rollers, 7 port large valve head, 4 carbs, Manilfow large bore LCB and exhaust, std gearbox with light MED fly, 

[Midas Mk1]

 

thanks for the advice, im now possibly looking at a kent 286, or the swiftune sw10 which i believe is supposed to be a similar spec to the 286, just modernized. but now im wondering if i should go for something in between, so i can still keep a tall final drive, so i don't have to rev the engine a lot to get moving. but thanks for the advice, ive got a couple of things to consider.

thanks

sam 

 

I run an SW10 in a 1293 engine with a close-ratio box and a 3.6 diff.  The engine pulls very well and I reckon it would be fine on a standard box with a 3.4 diff no problem at all.  

 

Phil.

 

I run a 1312, with sw10 and 3.2 diff and std ratio box, its awesome and pulls fine!