26 replies to this topic

[jenks74]

Hi guys just wondering if no gas mig welder is as as good as a gas mig welder? I don't know a lot about them and all the welders of used in the pass have been big garage welders with gas.

An info would be greatly appreciated 👌

Mike

[Carlos W]

Some people like gasless welders, and the aren't bad if you have no shelter.

 

However, gas shield welders weld a bit cooler, and the welds tend to be cleaner. Some say it's easier to weld with gas.

 

Why are you considering gasless?

[jenks74]

Yes, I've been looking around for a welder and don't want to pay loads for one, and they seem to be cheaper, but most do say gas/no gas.

[gazza82]

Gas/no gas normally means gas-less unless you buy the optional gas fittings.

[Sam14]

It's all about the power

Gas or gasless on a low powered welder is like putting normal octane fuel or high octane fuel...hardly any difference.

But obviously gas plays a more important roll in the high powered welding.

I'd say gasless is good to up to 1mm thick steel, 1.2mm at a push. Not pretty but aslong as it make correct penetration and you can always clean off

[Sam14]

But with cars and body thin panels so you want the least amount of heat possible as you'll warp..well you'll have a little warp but yeah you get the idea.

[sonikk4]

Unless you are good at welding then I would say don't bother and buy a gas mig.

There have been so many threads about this on here and it always boils down to skill level. There are second hand Gas MIGs out there so buy one of those. You can always make a sheltered area to weld even outside so not a big deal.

[Icey]

I've used gasless quite a lot on panels and it's a bit of a pain. I'd choose gas over gasless every time.

 

The biggest problem is the fluxed wire only comes in .8mm which is just too heavy for welding panels. Couple that with a cheap welder and you'll find you cannot get the current low enough. It's difficult not to blow holes in everything.

 

You can get around this by pulse welding and with it you can get decent results but it's slow and messy work (lots of splatter from the flux).

 

If you're planning on a full restoration just buy a decent welder, don't skimp before you've even started - you'll be kicking yourself sooner than you'd think.

[Carlos W]

I've used gasless quite a lot on panels and it's a bit of a pain. I'd choose gas over gasless every time.

 

The biggest problem is the fluxed wire only comes in .8mm which is just too heavy for welding panels. Couple that with a cheap welder and you'll find you cannot get the current low enough. It's difficult not to blow holes in everything.

 

You can get around this by pulse welding and with it you can get decent results but it's slow and messy work (lots of splatter from the flux).

 

If you're planning on a full restoration just buy a decent welder, don't skimp before you've even started - you'll be kicking yourself sooner than you'd think.

Far better advice than mine, someone with 1st hand experience

[Mr Frosty]

 

I've used gasless quite a lot on panels and it's a bit of a pain. I'd choose gas over gasless every time.

 

The biggest problem is the fluxed wire only comes in .8mm which is just too heavy for welding panels. Couple that with a cheap welder and you'll find you cannot get the current low enough. It's difficult not to blow holes in everything.

 

You can get around this by pulse welding and with it you can get decent results but it's slow and messy work (lots of splatter from the flux).

 

If you're planning on a full restoration just buy a decent welder, don't skimp before you've even started - you'll be kicking yourself sooner than you'd think.

Far better advice than mine, someone with 1st hand experience

 

I agree with above.

I count myself as a decent hobbyist welder and can stick, mig and do a nice lead job at a push.

I am using a Gas-less mig  on my project which is fine for new panels or the heaver sections but as soon as you hit the old sections you blow holes if your not very careful. Fortunately my welder has the fittings for gas so can chop and change wire type when required.

The right tools will save hours in any project.  

[Tamworthbay]

And the wire for gas less is much more expensive, I suppose it depends how much you do, but a gas one running a hobby size cylinder from Adams or Hobbyweld will work out cheaper in the long run.

[Icey]

And the wire for gas less is much more expensive, I suppose it depends how much you do, but a gas one running a hobby size cylinder from Adams or Hobbyweld will work out cheaper in the long run.

 

I didn't want to go that far in my post but it's very true, additionally you'll eat more tips and shrouds as well because of the increased splatter. You also tend to get through more masks (if you don't have one with replaceable fascias) for the same reason.

 

The cost of the wire is a little offset by it's durability. Mild steel wire rusts very quickly if not cared for (leave it in the welder, in your garage over winter and it'll be dead by spring - put it in a warm, dry place when not in use). Gasless wire doesn't seem to suffer in the same way, likely because of the flux treatment - I've had a small roll in my welder for a few years and it's still fine.

 

It can also be a little more flattering for the crappy SIP (and derivative) welders. Because of it's increased sized and that it's slightly more mailable (or at least appears to be) it doesn't show up the poor wire feed mechanism, especially on the smaller (half kilo) rolls.

[Ben_O]

The difference between the two is chalk and cheese.

 

yes gasless does work out a little cheaper and you don't have to worry about running out of gas but the finish on a gas welded is so much better and well worth the extra dosh.

My previous Mig was gas/no gas which i bought new and to start with, i had no gas so i tried gasless using the wire supplied and i got so frustrated with it, i gave up and ended up redoing what i had done once i got some gas

 

If like me, you hate grinding down welds the defiantly get a gas one because with the right skill you can get perfect neat welds which grind back to a lovely finish in seconds where as flux welding doesn't (unless you are very good)

 

I also like to replicate factory seams welds which i don't like to grind back so the neater they are, the better it looks.

 

both will do the job but why make it harder than it needs to be for the sake of a few extra quid?

 

As Neil said, you can get a decent used gas setup for less than £100 and hobby weld can supply decent sized cylinders which last for a good while if you set them up right and don't cost the earth to refill.

[Ben_O]

Plus with gas-less, you get a lot of ******* and splatter which is a pita

 

Gas

 

 

gas-less

 

 

Edit: It appears that i can't use the word that is stared out above as it's also a bad name...

[eean]

Gas mig welders are the way for thin sheet steel, one thing with the gas, I switched from pub CO2 bottle as I read up on the mig welding forum that argon/CO2 mix is better to use, BUT beware, my new bottle from hobbyweld only lasted 2 weeks, my co2 bottle lasted years so I'm going to swap back once this new bottle runs out. I got told when enquiring why it had run out so fast that they are just for use for small jobs etc not for every day use which I thought was a bit out of order, its as if they fill the bottle to just shy of 2000psi as my gauge has already moved from that after only a few hours use, anyway I'd go for pub co2 bottle cheaper refills too

Edited by eean, 01 September 2015 - 06:30 PM.